quote:Originally posted by Omega: You're seeing sex as a reason for marriage. If you see marriage as a reason for sex, everything takes on a completely different tone.
I'm seeing love as being partially based on sexual attraction.
Male/Felame couples bond in part based on who they think will be a suitable mate. Subconsious or not, that's how it is.
Not having any sexual experience kinda makes me wonder at the suitability of their choice: are they setteling for some imagined ideal only to be disapointed? I wonder what percentage of marriages last when one or both partners are virgins before the wedding?
So, Super Milk Chan is on and I may well go insane trying to watch it without the use of recreational chemicals.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Omega: If I were to go two or three years with this woman without as much as a french kiss (which is foreplay at the very least), just hugs and cheek kisses, what am I going to be doing for those years, be her chaperon?
Her friend. That's the important part, regardless of the level of physical affection.
What you'd be is A LOSER: dont be suprised when her "feelings for you change" and she loves someone else- physically.
Physical intimacy is a very (possibly the most) imporntant part of the bonding process between partners: it's something of yourself you only share with them.
A relationship that includes physical intimacy is always stronger than one without it.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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"I wonder what percentage of marriages last when one or both partners are virgins before the wedding?"
A very high percentage, I expect. Think about it: the people who do that are the same sort of people who think they'll burn in hell for eternity if they get a divorce.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I dont think a lasting marraige can spring from the fear of supernatural reprisal.
I suppose it explains why catholics can be unfaithful to their partner and somehow be forgiven through confession. If you no longer love someone, staying together from apathy (or worse- religion!) is only hurting both people involved.
The extreme religous couple is kinda the outside example here: I refer more to the moral romantic that thinks "there's one person for me and by waiting it'll be so special blah blah blah love blah".
I wonder how many virgins wait till the wedding night and then kick themselves for not having sex -for years- prior.
Or how many are so freaked out by their first (often akward) sexual experience that it spoils things just a little: talk about pressure to perform! It's your wedding, the biggest, most stressful day of your life and it's also the first time you see your wife naked, and you're supposd to relax, be intimate and not stress out about doing a good job of it?
Man, that's rough.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
I can forsee most viring wedding nights lasting either a long time, or roughly 24 seconds.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
Well, I look at it this way: If I'm someone with no sexual experience marrying someone with no sexual experience, I'd much rather have that experience for the first time knowing that we've already made a committment to each other based on love and respect and friendship. Knowing that we're both committed to making our sexual relationship a wonderful thing just as we're committed to making our friendship and our partnership a wonderful thing.
I'm not afraid of burning in Hell if I have sex before marriage. I don't even believe in Hell. I do think that abstaining from sex before marriage is more likely to lead to a stronger marriage int he long run though, *if* the two people are both looking at it in the same way. *If* the two are both looking to actually get to know each other and become assured of mutual interest and friendship and support. If you're just getting married so you can finally have sex, welcome to the rest of your miserable life.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: If you're just getting married so you can finally have sex, welcome to the rest of your miserable life.
But that wouldn't even be an issue without the belief certain religions have that a person shouldn't have sex before they get married. Granted, you may not believe in hell, but I'll bet that the "non-religios people waiting until they're married before they get it on" group has a very low membership.
I suppose it depends on how much credit you want to give to sex. Sure, it's great and all, but so are lots of other things. Would you refrain from going on holiday ever until you get married? Would you refrain from accepting a pair of tickets to the World Cup Final/Superbowl until you're married and have someone to share it with? Would you not touch the co-op option on Halo 2 until you and your partner have those wedding rings on?
(It also might just be me, but only people who are waiting tend to describe sex as a "wonderful, touching expression of the bond two people have for each other". People who've actually done it tend to describe it as "really quite fun". Or just "wahay".)
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm pretty sure that sex can be both a touching expression of affection AND a boatload of jiggly, bouncy fun.
Of course waiting has to do with religious beliefs, most of the time. Although, my dad isn't that religious and as I said, my parents were virgins when they married (yes, I believe them). But because the idea is based on a set of religious beliefs, does that necessarily mean that it's bad? Even those who think religion is alot of hooha would have to agree that if people waited until they were married to have sex, and excersized a touch of common sense when choosing their marriage partners, cases of unwanted pregnancy, teen motherhood, single-parent familes, etc. wouldn't be an issue. Not that I think teen mothers or single parents are being "punished for their sin" or any nonsense like that... But I think the membership for the group that would choose to be in those situations is also pretty low.
I agree that sex is a great thing, but it can also cause a crap load of problems.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Even those who think religion is alot of hooha would have to agree that if people waited until they were married to have sex, and excersized a touch of common sense when choosing their marriage partners, cases of unwanted pregnancy, teen motherhood, single-parent familes, etc. wouldn't be an issue.
I hate that argument. Sure, abstaining from pre-martital sex would stop single-parent families, unwanted pregnancies, and so on. So would not leaving the house. If you want to stop people using sex in such an "irresponsible" manner, then teach them how to have sex properly. Teach them about contraception. Teach them about the financial and emotional burden being a young single parent can be. And if they choose not to have sex then, then fine. But the current approach is like telling people that the best way to avoid car crashes is to never drive anywhere.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: [QUOTE]. People who've actually done it tend to describe it as "really quite fun". Or just "wahay".)
I call it "Shnu Shnu".
The best way to avoid the pitfalls of pre-marital sex is through education and open communication. Not through religion-driven fear of what might happen.
Yeah, thousands of people have their lives changed by STD's or an unexpected pregnantcy. Millions more have sex, enjoy sex smartly and go on to -eventually- find that special someone after some trial and error.
Sex is a lot like swimming- akward at first, but it gets more confortable and more enjoyable each time you do it.
Jump in the pool, Aban: the water's fine.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Haven't I been saying all along that I disagree with the methods used to "enforce" celebacy? I don't think fear should be used, and I don't think it should be treated as an immoral act. All that does is lead to people looking at sex as dirty, which it isn't.
I'll all for young people being treated about how to use contraception, but I also think they need to be made awre of the risks involved in becomming sexually active. And I don't think it should be done in schools. This is a job for parents who *should* have the benefit of experience and be able to provide a balanced view of the matter.
posted
Dirty sex is great! Particularly when the woman talks real dirty....
Though your point is not lost on me, I'm just sayin: Dirty= sexy!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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"If I'm someone with no sexual experience marrying someone with no sexual experience..."
That's a big "if". Unless you really intend to strictly limit yourself to such a small percentage of the women out there. Are you really going to find the perfect woman for you, but then refuse to marry her because she's had sex before?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
No. I've dated women who have been married before. I was perfectly comfortable with that. But for me, my point stands... As someone with no sexual experience there's no way I would be satisfying to a woman who knows what she's doing the first few times out. I'd like to have the security and peace of mind of knowing that she's devoted to me and willing to help me learn. That we already have a strong, commited relationship that will only get better as the sexual relationship is added.
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