posted
If I take all your posts out of contect to make you appear to hate gay people, then "you participated" in that? Yeah, Right. Creative editing has been used time and again for comedic purposes to make someone look like they endorse the absurd- and I'm not saying the commander was doing it from malice, only that it's not what she intended (read her version of that footage nad see for yourself).
Any way you look at it, the commander used very poor judgment in making that video- and now it's come back to kill his career- and that's sad, but not terribly unfair.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Let's say that all of the sudden Lorne Michaels of Saturday Night Live was dethroned for all of SNL's racy skits. And I say "hey, I watched SNL, it's silly, low-budget stuff, some of it even funny. Glenn Close even participates."
You, to be consistent, would then claim bullshit and that she was photoshopped into the show off some interview or something.
Except (a) that never happened, 'cause she was indeed on it and (b) I never make any suggestion that she was involved in any racy skit.
Don't you see why I find your outrage more than a little ridiculous?
And yes, it's as unfair to Honors as you're being to me (much moreso, actually), because all the sudden the captain of a nuclear-powered warship who has spent months at a time away from home putting himself on the front lines for his country is being taken out of context just as severely, treated, not like the XO he was at the time with a duty to maintain morale, but like he just dropped his tux trousers and peed in a crystal wine goblet at a posh Victorian-era dinner party.
It's a frickin' Navy warship, not a White House dinner. If it makes my airmen feel good in the cockpit to post silly plaques over washing machines and that helps them come home, then I'll bloody well pay for it.
My god, it sounds like they'd bust Captain Picard for his Dixon Hill programs, at that rate . . . "We're sorry, but you're busted to Ensign for running programs set in a misogynistic era when extra rights for homosexuals had not been passed into law . . . "
Seriously? That's what you're defending?
In any case, the greatest disgrace here is our Navy brass . . . they desperately need to man up, put their britches back on, grow a pair, stop being pussies, and all the other evil misogynistic ways of saying that they're being spineless idiots who've deployed too often out of soft San Fran with the song's "flowers in their hair". I don't want such gentle (and genteel) people running my military.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
By our thnking, it would have been just as okay for the commander to disparage black people or asians or jews- after all, "it's a navy warship!" it's all in fun if it lets sailors blow off some steam....right?
Guess what? the captain sets the example for the rest of the ship- anyone looking at those tapes would think that it's fine to speak that way of gays servicemen and women.
It was a dumb thing to do and he did it anyway- now it' time for him to accept consequences- just as any military officer would- for his conduct.
as long as you're making Trek comparisons, I'll give you one- we never saw Picard get on the shipwide and tell jokes about Orion Slave girls or Klingons being sissys- it would be conduct unbecoming an officer. See the comparison?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
I could see Riker doing it, though... (kidding)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: By our thnking, it would have been just as okay for the commander to disparage black people or asians or jews- after all, "it's a navy warship!" it's all in fun if it lets sailors blow off some steam....right?
Nope, not right, 'cause the last thing that needs to happen is for someone who doesn't get it to start trying to put words in my mouth.
And as far as disparaging, who'd he disparage? "Chicks"? The deckhands who got called queer? I guess I missed it. Oh, I'm sure one can strip the stuff out of context if you try hard enough and make it look evil and whatever, as all such panty-waist "omg so offensive" morons do, but that is by its nature stripping it out of context.
But then, any comedy involving stereotypes is bad, right? Unless it's comedians doing it, then it's considered funny and they get rich, but you can't have a part-time or momentary comedian because then they're evil and bad and wrong. With the possible exception of jokes against those damn honkies.
It's so ridiculous.
quote:as long as you're making Trek comparisons, I'll give you one- we never saw Picard get on the shipwide and tell jokes about Orion Slave girls or Klingons being sissys- it would be conduct unbecoming an officer. See the comparison?
Bad comparison, because you'd actually need to be talking about Riker, who was XO like Honors was at the time. And Riker was quite the jovial joke-teller, wasn't he? Too bad we didn't get to hear more than one or two of them.
And of course stereotype humor was never allowed, was it? Oh, wait, I seem to recall some joke having a punchline involving Ferengi told to Riker, don't I? Or how about Kirk's Klingon aphrodisiacs, hmm? I mean, if you get right down to it, that sort of thing could be terribly offensive to those groups.
Put simply, it's a slippery slope from punishing a truly offensive or thoughtless moron, which is good when done to a reasonable level, to the end of the road where so much as hearing a stereotype and not reporting it is some sort of thoughtcrime. I say punish assholes for being assholes, don't trump up stupid stuff stripped out of context.
If the guy'd indicated sexism in official actions, that's one thing. But in a comedy skit, it's something else.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
Yeah? If it's so harmless, why were the onjections of several crewmen not followed up on at the time? If it's so harmless, why were members of his crew offended at all?
Face acts- the commander acted in a manner unbecoming an officer and paid the price- and now Naval officers will have to behave at a more professional level.
This is hardly the first incident involving Naval officers behaving poorly and it causing a scandal- -though this is minor compared with the Tailhook incidents.
If only the army held it's officers to such high standards, we would have seen that fucktard Allen West dishonorably discharged instead of joining Congress.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
Member # 1203
posted
*sigh* the thing is, nobody will be willing do even pale jokes out of fear some will fuck them over with a bus because their pussy hurt, they got a shitty eval, or passed over for promotion, etc...
it'll just INCREASE the tension and increase the fatalities. The job's hard enough as is...
posted
Yeah, because speaking with respect when talking about crewmen is going to lead to fatalities.
Riiiight.
By that same thinking, the entire Code of Conduct manual can be tossed out- it'll make the military much safer not to have to think before speaking.
You're talking about stress, but how stresseful do you suppose it is for a gay serviceman to hear his XO talking like that? You think maybe that stress serves as a distraction? Just a little?
It's a shame that nothing was done regarding this incident back when it happened- if they could say the matter was addressed and the now-Captain had been coached- and that it was no longer an issue- then his command might have been spared.
It would not even have been a story.
Instead the navy brushed off crewmen's complaints and now here we are.
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