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Author Topic: This may be the smartest thing I've heard all year.
First of Two
Better than you
Member # 16

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On one of the other sites I frequent, the following post was made by a denizen I admire. To me, it may be one of the most brilliant musings I've ever heard. I now reproduce it, and a following statement by the same author, in its entirety for your edification/amusement/horror, depending upon your point of view.

"I walked into a church a few weeks ago to fix their copier, and there were 3 priests sitting at a table.
During the exchange of ordinary pleasantries, one of them asked, I'm sure jokingly, if i had any thoughts on the resurrection.
ooops....

This is the gist of what i said to them:

Well, it could be argued that the resurrection was actually meaningless.
If we accept that jesus was a diety, and for the purposes of this discussion we certainly do, then his resurrection was not miraculous, merely inevitable.

The thing we can extract meaning from is the sacrifice, or rather his willingness to sacrifice himself for a greater cause.

It's fairly clear that jesus knew that he would be betrayed by judas, and it can, and has been argued that jesus in fact instructed judas to do so, thereby making it not a betrayal at all, but a willingness to stand for what he believed in.

Jesus had to know what was facing him in terms of roman justice, and yet he gave himself over to them anyway.

If we look at his motivations for doing so, it becomes clear that the only possible explanation was that he needed to make a leap of faith.

We know that his faith faltered on the cross, when he cried out in pain; "father, why hast thou forsaken me" or words to that effect, and therefore we know that he had doubts. If he did not, he would not have made that statement.

In essence, what he did was to set an example of faith, of choosing to believe, and a willingness to set aside doubts and fears for an idea, or an ideal.

In fact, jesus did not even have to be divine for his sacrifice to have meaning. You could even argue that his sacrifce m eant more because it was done as a man, and not as a god. A man who believed that he would be resurrected, but did not KNOW it for certain.

In fact, jesus could be a completely mythological figure, and we could still draw hope and strength from his example.

So when you talk to your congregations on sunday, tell them that the true miricle wasn't the resurrection, but the leap of faith of a simple man."

-------------------------------------------------------

"By the way, the religious aspect of faith is only one.
When anyone sacrifices themselves in the hope that something good will come of it, they are engaging in an act of faith. God is not a neccesary component of this.
A pilot flying his doomed plane past a town to crash it in a desolate area is engaging in an act of faith. Faith that his sacrifice will have meaning. Faith that it will MATTER. Faith that it will make a difference. Faith that in his dying, others may live. When you check off the organ donor box on your drivers license, you are engaging in an act of faith. Faith that your act will save someone elses life after you are dead. You have no way of knowing if it will, but you do it anyway. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. And why is it the right thing to do? Because somehow, we know instinctively that there is a meaning beyond our own meager lives. What each of us believes that meaning to be, no matter how simple or how lofty that meaning is, we know it is there. Or rather, we induldge in a simple act of faith that it is.

Why? Because it is in tiny acts of faith like that, in acts of faith that say that something MATTERS, that we give meaning to our lives. Because if nothing matters, we are just here for the food and the sex. And as good as that may be, it isn't enough.

Besides, the fundamental basis...the very CORE of a belief in god, is that he can ONLY be taken on faith, because it is the doubt and lack of proof that gives meaning to an act of faith.

In the end, this is what really seperates us from the animals. The ability to be aware of the leaps of faith that we make.

So, it really doesn't matter if god exists or not, or if jesus was a man or a deity, or if he even existed.

It is the CONCEPT that he died for a greater meaning that is important. Because that idea transcends the catholic church, in fact transcends the very existance of god altogether.

THAT is why the story of one man's sacrifice was able to form the basis of a 2000 year old religion. Because the nobility inherant in a sacrifice of one man, for the benefit of his brothers is something that resonates in us all."

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi


[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited June 02, 2000).]


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sol System
two dollar pistol
Member # 30

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This reminds me a great deal of some of Kierkegaard's philosophy. Namely, a leap of faith as the most important thing in the world. To be honest, I've never really looked into it more closely, as I've been concentrating on the Greeks a lot lately. (Not necessarily out of choice. Darned class.)

Mostly, I just like to type (and say) Kierkegaard. Though I'm missing a few special little doodads over some of the letters. Heck, I might even be misspelling it entirely, though that would be embarrasing.

------------------
"While it is true that 15% of home accidents are caused by large penis related incidents, only a small number have ever been known to be fatal."
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"!


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122

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The significance of the crucifixion, and the subsequent resurrection is that Jesus was just what he was.... a man. He did have his doubts a couple of times. For instance, in the Garden of Gethsemane, in his prayers, he asked God if this was the only course of action. Obviously, like any man he did not want to die, so he asked for any options. When the only one was given, he took it. He went with the plan, knowing the outcome was his death. This is what makes a sacrifice even more noble. Our faith is what leads us to believe this story to be true, and our faith is what leads us to be the followers we are. (That is why different religions are referred to as different faiths.... It is all in what you put your faith into that will ultimately lead to your outcome. You put your faith into money, than your life will be won or lost on that very same concept. You put your faith into Christ, than your outcome after death (Is there life after death?) will be decided on that basis (If there is Christ, God and the Heavens, then your faith will be rewarded, if there is none, well, at least you had something to believe in while you were still alive.)

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Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang
me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider
Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak
Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide



Registered: Apr 1999  |  IP: Logged
David Sands
Active Member
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May I ask what their reactions were?

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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.



Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged
First of Two
Better than you
Member # 16

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"They" as in the priests he was speaking to? He didn't say. Me, I'd guess they were stunned into silence, being too shocked that a copier repairman had thought so deeply on the subject... kind of like Dilbert is everytime his garbageman fixes a problem Dilbert believed unsolvable.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi



Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
   

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