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Author Topic: The Tax Debate
Jeff Raven
Always Right
Member # 20

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I figured we should take the debate to a new thread :-)

To start off, I got this from my Netscape news(whatever service they use)

Tax Plan Benefits in Eye of Beholder


WASHINGTON (AP) - Republican presidential nominee George W. Bush and Democratic candidate Al Gore are fiercely debating which tax cut proposal is best for the average American. Who's right?
As usual in matters of the federal tax code, it depends. It depends on how much taxpayers earn, whether they have a house or children and what they're doing in life.

The basic difference between the two: anyone who pays income taxes now would get money back under Bush's $1.3 trillion plan, while Gore's $500 billion proposal would only kick in for people engaged in certain activities and below specified income levels.

For example, the two proposals would both cut taxes for a couple earning $60,000 a year with two children, but in much different ways and depending on a family's choices, according to calculations produced by the Gore and Bush campaigns.

Under Bush's proposal, this couple would see their income tax rate fall from 15 percent to 10 percent. The current $500 per-child tax credit would rise to $1,000 for each child. Assuming they itemize their deductions- most homeowners do to deduct mortgage interest - that amounts to a tax cut of $2,050.

Gore's plan works differently. Under his example, the married couple takes the standard deduction - which Gore would significantly raise - instead of itemizing deductions. They have one older child in college, so they claim Gore's proposed tax credit for tuition and expenses. And they could get $2,000 in government matching funds if they take advantage of tax-free
retirement savings accounts Gore is pushing. Total tax cut: $3,025.

The bottom line in this situation is that Bush's plan is much simpler and doesn't require the taxpayer to do anything except earn money, while the benefits of Gore's proposal depend upon taxpayers taking certain actions or dealing with particular needs.

In another example, a single working mother with two kids earning $30,000 a year would get a $1,310 tax cut under Bush's plan. Dropping the 15 percent income tax rate to 10 percent and doubling the per-child credit would essentially remove her from income tax rolls.

Gore's plan could be similarly generous, but again only under certain circumstances. The single mother could get a $1,358 tax cut, but that assumes she is attending community college to claim the higher education tax credit and has her kids in day care to
claim the expanded child care credit Gore is proposing. She would also benefit from a higher earned income tax credit under Gore but would remain on tax rolls.

Except for the proposed increase in the standard deduction for married couples, Gore's tax credits are phased out for taxpayers with incomes above $100,000 a year. This holds down the cost of the plan and ensures more money from the projected budget surplus is available for such priorities as education, paying down public debt and shoring up Social Security and Medicare.

But targeting the tax relief almost exclusively at people in a certain income group allows Bush to claim that Gore's plan would only benefit a portion of all taxpayers - and only if they make the right choices.

``The so-called 'targeted' tax cut means that some are targeted out of tax relief,'' Bush said during a campaign swing last week.
Gore, on the other hand, is able to argue that giving an across-the-board reduction in tax rates, as Bush would do, means that 60 percent of the overall Bush tax cut would go to taxpayers with incomes above $92,500 a year - because they pay the greatest share of all income taxes in America.

``I'll fight for middle-class tax cuts that go to you and your families, that go to the people who have the hardest time paying the taxes, who most need the help, who most need the attention and the priority placed on them,'' Gore said in a campaign speech last week.

Ultimately, the difference comes down to political philosophy: Bush and the Republicans favor a more straightforward refund of surplus tax revenue to the people who pay it, regardless of their income level or life situation. That has the added attraction of holding down government spending.

``The governor believes everybody deserves tax relief,'' said Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer. ``He thinks it's wrong to take 40 percent of somebody's income, that nobody should pay that much in taxes.''

To Gore, tax cuts are one of many ways to use the budget surplus to tackle social problems, particularly for lower-income people.

``Spending the whole surplus on tax cuts for the rich deprives everybody else of sharing in this prosperity,'' said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. ``It's a matter of doing what's right and putting first things first.''

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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000


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The_Tom
recently silent
Member # 38

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That's not a news report, Jeff, it's an opinion piece. An editorial.

Not to say that it can't be discussed intelligently or that its figures aren't right. But don't try to pass it off as "the straight goods", wouldya?

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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations


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Jeff Raven
Always Right
Member # 20

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I didn't say it was either way. All I said was it was from Netscape news...

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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000


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Baloo
Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Member # 5

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I earn considerably less than $100,000 a year. I'd rather have a simple reduction in the tax rate, even if some Rich Bastard� benefits. Why?

My taxes are too @#$% complex as it is, that's why! Jeezus! Is it too much to ask for a simple system of taxation that doesn't make it necessary to hire an accountant just to ensure you get back what you shouldn't have had to pay in the first place? I don't want to have to stand on my head on alternate Thursdays to qualify for some @#$% tax break. Quit using the @#$% tax tables to advance some sociopolitical agenda and allow me to remain sane between January 1st and whenever I manage to file my taxes.

Sheesh!

~~Baloo

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Beer lovers take note:
Stroh's spelled backwards is "shorts."

http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/



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Savar
Ex-Member


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Two words: FLAT TAX. Fair. Uncomplicated. Easy to implement. The politicians hate it. Any proposed "tax cut" is designed to offer some perceived relief while at the same time, keeping the coffers full of government graft. A flat tax would drastically reduce the monies available for the goverment to spend. Consequently, strict budgets would have to be created and adhered to. Of course, this is why we'll never see a flat tax. Some economists (read: political whores) have labeled the flat tax as untenable or "fiscally irresponsible." Their view is in my opinion, utter nonsense.

The more money goverment has, the more it will spend.


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Omega
Some other beginning's end
Member # 91

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I think a sales tax might work better. There'd be no way for liberals to discriminate unfairly against the so-called "rich" that way.

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw


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First of Two
Better than you
Member # 16

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That sounds fair on the face of it... I mean, the 'rich' buy more, and more expensive stuff anyway, right?

Unless you're starting up a business, in which case buying the equipment is hard enough. My younger brother wants to set up shop as a chiropractor. Do you know what those machines and diagnostic tools RUN? Sheesh!

People moan about the so-called 'rich' getting all the breaks... and conveniently forget that THEY account for most of the tax revenue.

I read accounts of each candidate's tax plan, (In Time) and there's good and bad points to both. Gore's would affect me most, because I'm a low-income person. But I don't believe in using the 'surplus' for social engineering. Bush's wouldn't really touch on me, but it might be better for the economy (and thusly, the stocks I and my parents bought a while ago)

I'm for getting rid of the inheritance tax, despite not being likely to inherit much.

BUT... I'm still not entirely convinced that this surplus WILL exist in the first place... and neither are some economists... and making cuts in something you don't have yet is... well, it's not good.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master



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