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How would you do it? How would you ensure that every citizen has equal rights, both within the government and in their jobs? How would you ensure that corprations are controlled by the people, rather than controlling the people by buying out the government as they have in the US?
Lets say we start with a blank slate, nothing except knowledge of past human failures (I can't think of any true successes) influencing our ideas and choices, and try to create something that would benefit every person under it equaly, while remaining stabile and self-sustaining. Why don't we try an experiment and see if we can come up with something workable. To make this a truely blank slate, and to connect it to sci-fi a little, lets say our experiment is to be worked out on Mars or the moon (I'd prefer Mars, as it is further away from and therefore less influenced by Earth, yet still marginally habitable and accessible).
I think we want to make sure that our governmental/economic system promotes and rewards innovation, while preventing harmful class differences and granting equal rights to necessities (what those necessities should be should also be debated).
I think we should try and actually write a constitution. It would definately be an interesting challenge, and we could even post it online for all to see upon completion. There seem to be quite a few people here interested in political science, so lets give it a try!
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I think we should start with the assumption that the ideal government is that which provides the most benefits to the greatest number of people equally.
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I think the United States has come closest to such an ideal, but to reach that ideal would be impossible. Human nature has always included some section of society to get shafted.
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"I think the United States has come closest to such an idea"
You know, this really does worry me. I'm not saying that the US is bad or anything, but there do seem to be an awful lot of people who'll say "the US may not be prefect, but it's the best thing we currently have".
Do you really believe that the US is more "democratic" or whatever than the UK? Or Canada? Or Australia? Are you saying that you're a better country than Japan, when your country has to "censor" Japanese cartoons to "protect" children, even though Japanese children manage to watch them without taking a gun into a school and killing everyone?
This isn't bashing the US (again he says, covering his back). I'm sure the US does some things better than the UK. But I'm also sure the UK does some things better than the US. Same with Australia and all the others. I'd hesitate to call one "better" than the other.
Of course, I have to say this, because if I don't, nasty men in black coats will come around and take me away. If only I had a weapon to protect myself with...
------------------ "Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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The US is really nowhere near that ideal. The government is almost completely controlled by the corporations due to the way campaigns are financed. When both candidates have been bought out by the same corparations, how does the voter get a fair choice?
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Maybe you are right, Liam... But it is still what I think. I don't know what its like to live in UK Australia, Canada, but there are things I can do in the US that I probably wouldn't be able to do anywhere else.
I have never heard about censoring Japanese animation in the US. Where did this occur? By the way, I'm an executive member of the anime club here at my university to promote Japanese anime.
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I heard a good idea once. Can't reassemble it like I heard it of course, but it involved transforming some of the hierarchies in the democratic body, modify posts of greater power and responsibility, and form some types of councils instead. I know it sounds like hogwash here but when I heard it it sounded like a pretty good alternative to politicians, actually.
I hope the politic "arena" will be gone in fifty years or so. I think smoking will. Heh, that's a nice parallel, actually. Politicians (in the worst sense of the word) and smoking both go under the "We Haven't Got Time To Fuck Around Anymore"-category... We're dying here.
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited September 03, 2000).]
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Constructing ideal societies is an age old game, but also an impossible one, I'd wager. What are your ground rules? What are your underlying philosophical presumptions?
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I guess that is something we need to determine. Obviously, it would depend at least partially on the interests and values of the people involved.
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Jeff: Well, they probably wouldn't show stuff with nudity in it to begin with, so they wouldn't need to censor it. Though they did change Sailor Moon so it doesn't suggest homosexuality. My friend told me Sailor Uranus and Saturn are sisters in the US version so they wouldn't be mistaken for a gay couple. I don't know what they did about the Sailor Stars (I think that's what they're called), though. They're obviously transexual...
------------------ "Poetic souls delight in prose insane." --Lord Byron
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
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Seanr: The government is almost completely controlled by the corporations due to the way campaigns are financed
Bravo Seanr, welcome to Modern Socialism 101 (Omega, please don't give us any crap on Socialism being impossible and a paradox). One of the beliefs of Modern Socialism is that they believe that there are many Companies that influence the government for their own benefit, and not the benefit for society. For example, the Lumber magnate would lobby the prospective candidate for lighter environmental laws so he can cut down any number of trees that he wants, or the Chemical Magnate who wants lighter environmental laws so he can dump his chemical crap in the river any way he sees fit. With no repercussions of course. The possibilities are endless, from Genetically Modified Foods to Gun Control (from both sides of the issue, let's not go there yet).
I'm not saying Corporate Influence is a bad thing. There are the "good" companies who try to work for the greater good of society, but the other "black eyes" taint the image of Corporate Influence as a whole. Socialists paint ALL companies as "money grabbing pigs who don't care about others, only their money".
Tora: Zoicite (i think it is) looks like a girl, and was given a girl's voice in the US version. In the Japanese version, that same character was given a MAN's voice, and that bad person was in another relationship with some other baddie (who I don't know), who also looks like a girl, but has a MAN's voice in both versions. This comes from putting up with a very annoying female cousin for the past few years.
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited September 04, 2000).]
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Actually there are approx 180 major corporations that control the bulk of global trade. They are backed by international law, and further along by their nations armies. These companies are from the USA, UK, France, Canada, Germany, Japan, Australia and a couple of others I can't remember off the top of my head. As for the statement 'free market' its bollocks. Theres nothing free about it.
------------------ "More beer, more beer, more beer, more beer! ARSE!" - Ode to God.
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And besides, have you ever seen Dragonball Z? Especially the early ones? Hoo boy, cut to pieces.
And Robotech was actually made up from THREE different Japanese series (Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada).
Amasingly, possible the best dub job out of all Anime is Pokemon. Okay, the names have changed (but that's par for the course here, with the exception 0 knida- of DragonBall), but the voices are way above average for a dub job, the music's the same, dialogue and plotwise, it's extremely faithful to the original. Hell, even some of the voices for the Pokemon are the original Japanese voices. About the only censoring is the flashy lights in the early episodes, and the removal of japanese words, incase an American kid reads something in another language, and spontaniously combusts. (Although they did cut out Misty slapping Ash in episode one. Dunno why, they leave in everyone else ripping into each other).
Come on, you're in charge of an anime club, and you didn't know that? Pah. Next thing you'll be telling me that Thundercats is Japanese..
And you may be right about being able to do stuf fin the US that you can't do in other countries. But apart from being able to stuff your faces with food, take a gun to a local shopping hall and mow everyone down, and blame it on "society", name something that you can't do in the UK, Canada or Australia. That's actually import. So being able to marry your cousin in certain states does not count, m'kay?
------------------ "Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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May I suggest returning to the original topic? I think it is FAR more interesting than Pokemon (though I am perhaps a bit biased because of my seven-year-old stepbrother).
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