I showed a copy of the ballot to my 10th grade classes (and I've got some DUMBBBBBBBBBBB students- we're talking six year plan, here) and all but one of ninety understood the ballot, and were able to vote Gore/Liebermann if they chose just by following the arrow to the punch out site.

What do you think? Should the design of the ballot be an issue? Should the fact that people voted twice for president on the same disqualify their votes?
Or, should this alleged irregularity trigger a revote, with all of the hopla and circus-like atmosphere that would accompany it?

Seriously, I'm curious about everyone's opinions.

"Should the fact that people voted twice for president on the same disqualify their votes?"
If the ballot was received with two holes punched, then yes, it should be disqualified. If they don't understand that, then they shouldn't be voting.

Also, those 19000 votes that didn't get counted because they were double-punched? Those were votes that were discarded because people they made the mistake and got another ballot.

Should this alleged irregularity trigger a revote, with all of the hopla and circus-like atmosphere that would accompany it?
A revote would be illegal. The entire election would be decided by *one* county. You can't call a 'do-over.' Why should the country pay for the stupidity of one county?

I have stated my skepticism of multiple areas of this 'bad ballot' snafu on other threads, but to put it in a simple outline:

Your average 7-year old can, as demonstrated numerous times including on TV, tell the difference in the ballot.

The same ballot has been used in at least two prior elections (although it beats ME why they aren't using mechanized voting booths, like a civilized state...) and nobody complained ever. That makes this incident look spurious.

The only 'confusion' here is that of LAZY voters. And that falls under the category of 'tough shite.'

It is simply illegal to vote twice, no matter how 'confused' you were by the ballot. So ballots with two holes can't and shouldn't be counted at all, which is exactly what FL law says.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Of course, there's the caviat that the ballot may actually be ambiguous, but that doesn't apply here.

JR:

"Also, those 19000 votes that didn't get counted because they were double-punched? Those were votes that were discarded because people they made the mistake and got another ballot."

Yep, but it's kinda odd that they even exist, since as I understand Florida law, they're supposed to be destroyed. Maybe it doesn't nesecarily mean immediately...

Allow it for all the AARP whiners in Palm Beach and the miffed Republicans in Northwest Florida will want a re-vote too because they were told the election was a done deal before *their* polls were closed.

Unlike the kids playing a friendly game of stickball in the street, their are no "do overs" in this mess.

And I quote from several sources: when's the last time these people mis-read a Bingo card?

Here's a good one. I was watching the History Channel earlier today, and they had a discussion about this topic. Gerald Posner, who is usually a fairly level-headed historian/commentator, endorsed this approach in analyzing the ballots by hand: if the ballot was voted straight Democratic in every spot except president, then it should be counted as a vote for Gore, since the voter really "meant" to vote for Gore. Uh, hello Gerald? Is it just possible that the voter actually didn't want Gore to win?

I once voted a straight Republican ticket way back in (I think) 1985 or 1986, my first election. Well, straight Republican except for voting for a Democrat for the US Senate who helped my family and the families of other deceased veterans, and who I actually thought did a good job. However, to take Posner's idea my vote would have been changed to the Republican candidate if there was a problem! What BS!

What upsets me the most is the idea growing across this nation like a cancer that we aren't responsible for our own actions. I find this repugnant and insulting.

According to state law, the names are required to be in a certain order, based on the number of votes received by each party in the previous election. According to the law, Bush should have been first, Gore second, Buchanan Third, Nader fourth (IIRC), etc. In reality, they were not in that order. Reading from the tp down, the order was Bush, Buchanan, then Gore, Nader (IIRC), etc. Gore and buchana were clearly swapped.

The other problem with that ballot is the requirement that the holes be to the right of the names. If some names are on the right side of the holes, that law was clearly not followed. Some people argue that that law only applies to paper ballots, but the law also states that for computer ballots, the requirements for paper ballots are to be followed as much as practicable (a Bushism?). Sure, that's a blurry line, but it's not THAT blurry.

As far as the desgner of the ballot being a Democrat, tat's irrelevent. If it vioates the law, it doesn't mater who designed it. The election board is also at fault for approving it. When you read the code, it is clearly illegal and should have been rejected by the elections board without a moment's hesitation.

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Sean Robertson
[email protected]

http://www.webolutionary.com
http://www.mania-online.com
3D Gladiator Premier Forums Member

"Great is the glory for the strife is hard"
- Wordsworth

"Why must I be surrounded by frickin' idiots?"
- Dr Evil

I personally think a revote is the lesser of the two eviles, because at least then, both parties have equal ability to drive the masses to the polls. If you just dismiss the votes, then you've denied them the right to have their vote counted, and worse, you've done that in a heavily democatic county, which is clearly unfair as well, perhaps more so than a revote.

Have your students debate that question, maybe even have them split into two groups and have each group come up with all their reasons, and then they can each pick a debator from within the two groups to debate their points in front of the class. Sure would make for a far more interesting history class than the usual book/video routine.

I'd love to hear how that one goes.

Revotes in FL would be unfair to the rest of the country.

Revotes will not be allowed.

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Can anyone say premature ejac ... er, election?

Okay, calming down. Calming down. Calm. There. insanity gone now. Maybe.

On another note, CNN reported today that the margin in New Mexico is four votes statewide! Is this intense, or what?

And that's pretty much the final legal say on the matter, unless the Feds decide to once again overstep their authority and let Janet Reno step in.

And why do we not hear the other side acknowledging that these same ballots have been used for YEARS without a hassle, and that in the last election, several thousands of votes were nullified for the same reason, but nobody bitched THEN.

I'll tell you.
Because the issue isn't REALLY fairness, is it?

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

If the ballots were legal, then there's no issue.

Wait until the 17th, then see who won Florida. Whoever won Florida, gets the White House.

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"When they come, kill them. We're not here to make friends." -- Connor

"But you're my friend." -- Duncan

"Count yourself lucky." -- Connor

Highlander: The Element of Fire

I don't think there's a problem with people voting straight Democrat and then a Republican president. However, SOMETHING's going on when Jews start voting for Buchanan...

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"The distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
--Albert Eistein

She's STEREOTYPING!

And here I thought liberals didn't do that...