posted
What a lot of Christians forget is that we are supposed to hate sin but love sinners.
Think about this: We (Christians) are commanded to:
Love god.
Love one-another.
Love our enemies.
Now can someone tell me if that leaves out any group of sapient beings you can think of? Folks who want to personally go out and punish sinners need to examine themselves carefully in the mirror before they leave the house.
Mind you, the Bible does, in fact, illustrate several times that homosexual behavior is not condoned*. However, it isn't considered important enough to have a specific commandment against it. This leads me to believe that "little" things like lying, stealing, etc, need to be addressed as much or more vigorously.
No-one can force anyone else into heaven. If you try, you've missed the point. It's an individual choice. You can only persuade those who will listen with their hearts. Some will scoff, others will claim they've already figured out how to get in on their own, and others will always claim you are being holier-than-thou and demand you get off your high horse.
Others will try to do violence to you, physically or verbally. Telling others that Christians are all a bunch of hate-mongers is, in my opinion, a violent act. The fact that a lot of your friends may vigorously agree does not make it any less violent. The fact that "Christians" do much the same thing when discussing homosexuals or prostitution or adultery doesn't make it any less violent.
The question is this: Do you want to promote hate and violence? Do you want one group of people to all die so you can get on with your life without worrying about them? Keep doing what you're doing. It will eventually lead to something like what is happening now in Kossovo. Little thoughts lead to great deeds, for good or evil.
--Baloo
*Only one reference in the NIV Bible specifically uses the word "Homosexual": 1 Corinthians 6:9.
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.
------------------ Don't call me a Yank. I prefer to be referred to as a "Pull with a Sudden Movement".
The reasons you gave were the reason why I tried to remain calm. Yet when explaining what needed to be said there is little chance of not offending people with the other viewpoint. Jesus didn't have a lotof tact either, but then, He had powers the rest of us don't have! Also, the reasons you gave are also the reason I abandened the other thread.
Okay, this isn't against Baloo, it's against that Bible passage. It seems to say that male prostitutes are immoral but female ones are not??
------------------ "I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!" --John Adams, "1776"
""But you--come here, you sons of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!"
This passage would seem to indicate that if prostitution is not the same as adultery, it is considered as a sinful behavior on approximately the same level.
Keep also in mind, the Pharisees denounced Jesus because his entourage included tax collectors and prostitutes (apparently tax collectors were held in as high an esteem then as today).
His response (Matthew Chapter 11, verses 18-19):
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, "He has a demon."
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, "Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and 'sinners.'" But wisdom is proved right by her actions.
With regard to your objection, I wasn't directly addressing that subject in the original post.
--Baloo
------------------ Don't call me a Yank. I prefer to be referred to as a "Pull with a Sudden Movement".
[This message was edited by Baloo on April 13, 1999.]
posted
No, there is no "Commandment" against homosexuality.
On the other hand, there are passages in the Bible PROSCRIBING punishment for such people, specifically, DEATH. Same for "Witches", and all sorts of other people.
***I don't know how to do quotes like everybody else, so this'll have to do:::***
"The question is this: Do you want to promote hate and violence? Do you want one group of people to all die so you can get on with your life without worrying about them? Keep doing what you're doing. It will eventually lead to something like what is happening now in Kossovo. Little thoughts lead to great deeds, for good or evil."
It already has. When God leads the Israelites into the "promised land" it turns out to be already occupied, which results in the genocide of the occupants (in fact, likely a worse genocide than is taking place in Kosovo, since at least SOME women and children are getting out of Kosovo.)
This, in a Book that was supposedly written by a God that loves and forgives everybody.
The inherent contradictions are ridiculous.
Why should we trust a people who can claim to be loving and forgiving, and yet cling to a book like that?
posted
God by His own emission was a little different back then; bc that was before Christ's death. You'd need to do a lot of Bible study to understand this. Let's just say that Jesus' death on the cross caused God to have a change in personality. That's the fastest way to explain it.
posted
Multiple-personality Gods.. JUST what we need..
And don't forget, this is still the same God who has Armageddon all nicely planned out in advance...
Maybe his personality is going to swing back again?
"I'm gonna kill everybody.. no, now I love everybody.. okay, NOW I'm gonna kill everybody..."
*Makes the International "He's a Loony" sign by pointing at God-Being with left hand, while taking right index finger, pointing it at own right temple, and rotating it in small circles*
By the way, isn't one of the definitions of "God" that He's changeless? Doesn't even HE say that at at least one point?
posted
If Armageddon was planned, why not the Fall? if God can see that far into the future, and can DIRECT what MUST happen, how could He not know what the Serpent was up to in the Garden? Or do anything about it?
posted
I am a Christian pretty much all the time, with the exception of when I am being dragged out to church and when a duff a shot on the golf course.
I am also a realist.
IMHO there is a lot of crap in the bible. There, I said it. Anyone who reads the bible literally should be tied up and sent with a Black Panthers convention with a swastika tatooed to their forehead. Its stupid stupid stupid. I will put forward that the majority of the Old Testament has a very loose grip on history. Anything written 4000 years ago, Word of God or not, will have been mistranslated, warped by propagandists, lost and rewritten and pretty dated when it comes to modern day usage. However, so long as you don't go too literal onit, most of the New Testament is very good stuff.
One passage out of some shady Ancient Jewish manuscript certainly shouldn't superceed all the "love your neighbor" bits eleswhere. Any church leader who openly advocates harming homosexuals because of that one passage should really pay the panthers a visit.
------------------ "......" �������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
Dani
Naboo Handmaiden Ex-Part-Time Admin
Member # 57
posted
"Its stupid stupid stupid" ??
Whoa...Tom, care to explain this to us? I happen to think that here are a LOT of valuble lessons in the Bible; Old Testament and New Testament alike.
Just because a document was written 4000 years ago doesn't mean that human nature has changed at all in that amount of time. The reason that so much of the Bible doesn't seem relevant to us today is mostly because we're not taking it in context.
Let me give an example: Ephesians 6:22-24. "You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything."
Okay, right about now, you're thinking this is the most sexist, descriminatory thing you've ever heard and YES, it's in the Bible. But if you read only this, then that's where the fault lies. Ephesians carries on to say tell us that the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, and that he should love her as he loves his own body.
This isn't "submit to your husband when he beats you" of "submit to your husband when he's yelling at you" this is THE PERFECT RELATIONSHIP. Our partner is supposed to love us selflessly, as Christ loves his children. Submit, in this case, means acquiesce (To rest satisfied, without opposition and discontent.) because if the husband is seeking God's will for the family, he won't be making the decisions based on what he feels is right, but what is best for his family, and he won't be making these decisions on his own.
Anyways, that's just an example. IMHO, there is hardly anything in the Bible which is not at least the smallest bit relevant, even in current times.
((Oh, and FYI, I'd love to find the man who will love me as purely and unconditionally as God loves his children...))
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