posted
Why would anyone want to live on Mars? It's cold, susceptible to disaster, and worst of all it's stationary. A completely self-sustaining orbital habitat seems like a far nicer place to live. Spin it up to whatever gravity you like, complete control over the climate...and if you don't like the neighbors, you can leave.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
I'm sure he'd like to see it terraformed first - which is possible at our current level of technological development.
Reminds me of a very old game by Maxis called 'Sim Earth' in which the colonization of Mars was one possible game scenario... it doesn't seem that far-fetched anymore.
[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Mojo Jojo ]
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
"Hey Columbus, how about instead of going and settling new towns in America, we build our own colonies the size of Lisbon from scratch on the open ocean? It makes so much more sense!"
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Yes, I'm tired of people using the analogy of colonising America as an argument for colonising Mars. There are just too many differences for the analogy to be valid.
-------------------- "Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
Registered: Mar 2000
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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
Nobody's calling the analogy perfect. But it's a historical fact that once nations have stopped expanding, then they die or at least lose their power. I could use Rome, England, Spain, Japan, Russia all as examples. But the one that will have the most effect with the people who have the most amount of connection (ie, Americans), would be the settling of our own country. Its a matter of public relations.
And Sol, I can't begin to describe the massive amount of fallacy that lies in your statement. My example of building little cottages a few at a time or an entire free floating artificial continent at once stands.
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
quote:Nobody's calling the analogy perfect. But it's a historical fact that once nations have stopped expanding, then they die or at least lose their power. I could use Rome, England, Spain, Japan, Russia all as examples.
Yes, let's all join hands and dance around praising imperialism and colonialism, shall we? A nation that doesn't expand is no nation at all!
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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There's no natives on the asteroids. You don't have to colonize at the expense of anybody else anymore.
The real reasons to go into space are the eventuality that another dino-killer will hit, the fact that Earth has finite resources and space, and the fact that no matter what we do, eventually it will be uninhabitable, although that may take millions of years.
Life's Prime Directives: Survive! Grow! Reproduce!
Why not Mars? 2 words: "gravity wells." It is easier and cheaper in terms of 'lifting costs' (lifting bodies from the surface of a world to orbit or beyond and bringing them back) to do things in the microgravity of space than in any gravitational field, even Mars's.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
First, everything is already there. Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen (we think). We can make air, fuel, water, grow plants, make bricks and cement, even make plastic using shit already on Mars! Compare that to lifting a 10,000 person habitat into orbit that has to be built from scratch.
For the love of all that is empirical and scientific read "The Case for Mars" and if so inclined, "Entering Space". Debating from ignorance is no debate at all.
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
posted
I saw a science program hosted by Sam Neill, of Jurassic Park, on the TLC. Very informative and fun program. I believe the name is "Hyperspace".
In the program, there is a dicussion on why we should leave Earth. One of the reasons is the perpetuate the human species. In the distant future, our lovely planet will be incinerated and blown apart by the sun. If we live on Mars, we will buy additional time to leave the system before this world is, too, destroyed.
Now, comes the really sucky part of the whole situation. Our system travels through the Milky Way Galaxy, like a horse on a carousel. Every thirty thousand years or so, our system enters densely populated areas of the galaxy. (Densely populated=many star systems crammed into a small area, well, a small area for a galaxy.) Our system is influenced by these other star systems. Influences can include dislodging a rock in the Oort cloud which then takes a very long time to reach the inner system, if this drifting 'bomb' isn't grabbed by one of the larger worlds, say Jupiter. This is one major concern.
Another major concern is the explosion of a star. Unlike in Star Trek, where novas are shown to be rather benign events, a nova can disrupt or even destroy another solar system. If this happens (a star explodes next to our star), we will die before understanding what has killed us.
Another suggestion for the destruction of our system, which is rather remote, is a roving black hole. There are many black holes in our galaxy and some are not fixed in a path like our sun. They rove the galaxy until one of them latches onto a healthy star and begins to 'snack' on this star. If there are worlds in this striken star system, they are destroyed by the entrance of the black hole.
posted
I don't think anyone doubts that mankind will eventually move into the stars. I don't think theres any doubt that planet-based "colonies" will be the first to be established (even if only as practice).
Having said that, I think we'll all be dead before it ever comes to pass.
posted
"Another major concern is the explosion of a star. Unlike in Star Trek, where novas are shown to be rather benign events, a nova can disrupt or even destroy another solar system."
No! Novas are dangerous? (Sorry TE, but what episodes of Trek do you watch where novas are fireworks for the whole family to enjoy?)
"If this happens (a star explodes next to our star), we will die before understanding what has killed us."
Er, so if Alpha Centuri exploded, we'd die? How exactly?
"Every thirty thousand years or so, our system enters densely populated areas of the galaxy. (Densely populated=many star systems crammed into a small area, well, a small area for a galaxy.) Our system is influenced by these other star systems. Influences can include dislodging a rock in the Oort cloud which then takes a very long time to reach the inner system, if this drifting 'bomb' isn't grabbed by one of the larger worlds, say Jupiter. This is one major concern."
What? You mean we've only got 30,000 years left to start colonising? My god! I'd better skip dinner tonight and get straight on with designing that suspended animation transport ship.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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