It is not the weapons, but the hands USING them that have the problem.

And as for these people, there are many reasons why they may think this is right ... or may decide to do it even though they know it is wrong. It may have to do with the way it grew up. It may have to do with the society they live in, or thier parents. Maybe they weren't given enough attention growing up, and never learned about right and wrong .... maybe they were given too much attention and that festered inside them. I don't know. It is entirely possible that they thought what they were doing is right. Brainwashing occurs on many levels.
[Note:I am NOT condoning what happend. I am merely stating there are many things involved]

We don't know what drove those students to do what they did. They've shot themselves, so now we'll NEVER know. But the point is, i'm sure they had a reason. And whatever reason they might have given, could probably be traced back to the way they were brought up.

If we're going to take away the guns because they can be used as a weapon of destruction, we might as well take away knives, forks, spoons, pencils (there ARE 37 ways to kill people with pencils), medicines, medical supplies, rope, coat hangers, heavy objects, airplanes, cars, etc. ... see where i'm going with this?

It is not the things on this earth, but how one intends to use them, that is the problem.

First of Two: I'm really really disgusted. It's OK to kill a petty thief without judge or jury? IMHO even with judge and jury it's wrong, but that's not what this thread is for. And bounties? That's the sort of sick argument that keeps guns accesible to people who are gonna kill others. Crooks may be troubled people, but they're not vermin.

Taking away guns is not the quick option out of two. It is the only possible option out of two. If you think you can get prevent any beserk people from using the guns they own, then you're NUTS. N-U-T-S. That said, if you could outline a way to do this, then I'd be glad to let the second amendment sit there.

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"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371

I know that not every American is a gun-lover and NRA member (uh, I think it's called like this), but it's funny and sometimes worrying for an European to see how large parts of the U.S. society is irrationaly fascinated by deadly pieces of steel, praising the right for self-defense, but only satisfying the childish and irrational love for arms.
Enough provocation for now.

Sure, youcan kill someone with a knife. It's a lot harder though. If those two kids had burst into the school armed with just knives, I'm sure they would have done a lot less damamge.

First: 'Laws are totally ineffective against those determined to break them'? By that logic, ALL laws are useless, as people would just do whatever they wanted anyway. If the law is enforced, properly, with strong punishments, then hopefully people will obey it.

Jeff's link a few posts up to the NRA site listing attempts to ban handguns and why it hasn't worked. It also shows how guns were banned in the UK, ina very confusing statement. It seems to be saying that guns were kept out of the masses hands and given to the king and his supporters, so that we could not revolt. Strange. When we don't like our government, we vote for another one. The masses don't take up arms and rise up, killing all who oppose us. This isn't France in the Revolution.

Montgommery said it best. Most people are idiots. Do you want idiots to be able to kill someone?

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'Those are the headlines. Happy now?'
-Chris Morris.

Psychos are very smart these days, they can be creative. Take away guns, they'll find other means.

Several centuries later, during the French Revolution, things got a bit uglier, yes.

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"I'm sick, like Nixon was sick, my defeated heart keeps beating on. I won't die, like Chucky won't die."
--
They Might Be Giants

Anyways, me and my art teacher had a very interesting debate in the classroom today. Since the news of the shooting, the teachers have been informed to give us lectures on what to do in case of a lock-down (unfortunately, the classes today are an hour and 15 minutes, so we had to sit through three times that long).

He said that when you travel to places like Australia (he was an exchange teacher there), people often view our nation as terribley violent (due to movies they see, which are extremly over exagerated, I swear), and the inhabitants gun-happy. This is true, we feel the need to isolate ourselves and arm ourselves with guns. people are much more friendluer there, he says, anyways.

The amendment explaining our rights to bear arms was created when the 13 states had no army, and they figures that the colonists, which were mostly farmers, had enough guns of their own, and they would defend it like a fiercely territorial dog. Though this amendment now has more meaning than that, it gives us the right to carry weapons should we see the need to revolt against a armed government that threatens our free-will and well-being.

Nowadays, there are automatic weapons everywhere, though illegal, people carry them. They claim-swear up and down-that they only would use it for hunting. But why the hell do you want a automatic weapon for HUNTING?! I thought the whole idea of hunting was to create a challenge! Don't you think that trying to kill a animal with one bullet is hard? Now think about having a automatic pistol, it would mean that your aim would be alot less acurate (because you wouldn't need to care about hitting the right area of the brain the first time).

I still think that when somebody owns a gun, every resident in that house should go through some type of hunters education. Doesn't it only make sense?

And a little bit of a gripe...
A friend of mine happens to wear a black trenchcoat. Oooh, big deal, he works in places were he'd need it. It just so happens he was wearing it WAY before this whole incident occured. Guess what? After news hit my school of the shootings a little nerd told the principal that the coat made him feel uncomfortable. Either that or the principal was afraid. Either way, it is bullshit. This friend of mine happens to have gone through SEVERAL hunters saftey classes, and is very sane. He doesn't view the world as a target range and has no need to. *sigh* I guess people are just idiots, huh?

But still, I admit that the U.S. police are fuc'ed up. They are more quick to pull their gun than wait to see what happens. If that story about the lady in the car is true, then maybe the Unites States does need to crack down on gun MORE, and take some initiative to it.

Did you know that there's a fifteen day waitng period on handguns...but not rifles? And did you also know that automatics weapons can be sold to people legally (depending in the state) if it is in their"private collections"? yeah, we know how private those collections are.

The police in America are NOT all f***ed up, nor are most of them. There are millions of cities out in the US, and the only cases you here about police brutality are the ones that are most controversial. The media will only report controversy. You think this Colorado incident is bad? You should see what goes on in innercity schools. This is nothing. Everyday, some student dies in an innercity school as the result of a shootout, knife fight, etc. but you don't hear about it, because it isn't controversial. It happens everyday, so that's not interesting. It goes unheard.

PS. I do not take responsibility for what my 'ancestors' did way back when. I don't believe in collective guilt. Just because I'm white, does not mean I took part in the killing off of others that took place so long ago, nor I do feel bad if some nation gets bombed because of their misdeeds.

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Down for Upgrade

I personally wouldn't mind if guns were banned, but I do not think that this will solve the problem. The problem lies in the people too. We must first and foremost treat each other with respect and love. Show that we are all in the same boat---life (a lifeboat I guess *grins*) and help each other through our endevors by valuing every person...differences or not. Imagine a world where there was no diversity...can you see how incredibly dull and pointless it would be? In our diversity lies our strength, it really does.

Another thing I have to say is that perhaps instead of a complete repeal of the 2nd Amendment it needs to be clarified...I'd like to point out that it says, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Founding Father may very well have meant arms are necessary only for militia purposes... But who knows...

I think the only solution is to start at home...love each other more and be more concerned in the lives of children...they want attention more than anything...and we can give them that tiny thing. I also believe we need to talk about the 2nd Amend, so yeah Charles for starting this... Only after talking and being informed of both sides can we compromise and save us these terrible problems...

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"I think my eyes are getting better. Instead of a big dark blur, I see a big light blur."
*laughs*

And I didn't say to forget the crimes of the past, I am saying I don't take responsibility for them.

Say your father murders someone and gets away with it. The family of the murdered one comes knocking on your door. Do they have the right to punish you for what your father did? Didn't think so. That is my point.

And disease was the number one killing factor of the Native American population, period. Not this intermarriage or extermination. Yes, the killing off of people is atrocious. Yes, it was a very bad thing to do. Is it MY fault? NO. Period. I do not take responsibility for something someone who might have been related to me so long ago did.