Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
I am experiencing an unusually strong feeling of deja vu.
quote:Spend the bazillions of dollars on international aid, or buy every homeless person in America a sandwich (or fifty), or even give the money to Kenneth Lay. It'd be better spent.
But I guess fighting poverty or hunger isn't all that important. Wasting money on useless defense projects should be higher on the priority list. And who actually cares, anyway?
I know Ommie or FoT don't.
[ May 08, 2002, 13:28: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Doesn't do much good to feed dead people, does it?
Besides, "The Common Defense" is the government's job.
Seeing to it that you get your daily 3000 calories is not.
Given that you are no doubt surrounded by everyday implements gleaned from the technologial spin-offs of the space race and defense R&D, and NOT by implements gleaned from welfare R&D, you should see my point.
You don't fight poverty and hunger by indiscriminately throwing money at it, you make it worse. There are plenty of countries which spend a smaller proportion of money of defense than we do, and guess what? They have poor people too. In fact, most countries' poor people are much poorer than our poor people, not counting the insane.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
However, the government, while promoting the "general welfare", might not feel so great about letting people starve on the streets.
[ May 08, 2002, 14:08: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Besides, "The Common Defense" is the government's job. Seeing to it that you get your daily 3000 calories is not.
Says you. I would submit that any government with the power to deal with the latter but chooses not to is being irresponsible.
quote: Given that you are no doubt surrounded by everyday implements gleaned from the technologial spin-offs of the space race and defense R&D, and NOT by implements gleaned from welfare R&D, you should see my point.
If a hater of Lawrence Welk wants a stuffed animal, the best way to get it is not to send away $200 to the local PBS station during their pledge drive in support their continued airing of Mr. Welk and his decrepit orchestra.
quote: You don't fight poverty and hunger by indiscriminately throwing money at it, you make it worse. There are plenty of countries which spend a smaller proportion of money of defense than we do, and guess what? They have poor people too. In fact, most countries' poor people are much poorer than our poor people, not counting the insane.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And, I might add, nobody's bothered to tell us why America's hundreds of ICBMS with H-bomb warheads that managed just fine to satify the Republican hawks in dealing with "the Red menace" aren't good enough to deal with emerging "threats" that are still decades behind the USSR of 1990 in terms of technology.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
quote:Doesn't do much good to feed dead people, does it?
(1)
What dead people? Those ICBMs you fear so much haven't even been launched yet, you know
quote:Besides, "The Common Defense" is the government's job.
Wasting the tax payers' money isn't.
quote:Seeing to it that you get your daily 3000 calories is not.
It is when you have been puked out by the system through no fault of your own.
Bottom line: a government that has the power to deal with the latter but decides not to in favor of some obscure military initiative with more holes than a Swiss cheese, is damned irresponsible.
quote:Given that you are no doubt surrounded by everyday implements gleaned from the technologial spin-offs of the space race and defense R&D, and NOT by implements gleaned from welfare R&D, you should see my point.
Nope, I can't see it. Seems my vision is obscured by everyday implements.
Unlike you, I don't miss the Cold War. I'd rather forego a few technological advances than live in constant fear. But maybe that's just me.
quote:You don't fight poverty and hunger by indiscriminately throwing money at it, you make it worse.
Who said anything about indiscriminately throwing money?
quote:There are plenty of countries which spend a smaller proportion of money of defense than we do, and guess what? They have poor people too. In fact, most countries' poor people are much poorer than our poor people, not counting the insane.
(2)
No excuse.
[ May 08, 2002, 15:48: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
(In case you missed the joke, a 3000-calorie diet is about 1000 calories per day more than is considered healthy.. and we're a nation of fatties)
Where are these people who were 'puked out of the system for no fault of their own?' In all my years working with the public so far I can't recall meeting a single one.
I've met the physically disabled, who weren't being supported enough by their government-run HMO's... not because the govt. wouldn't give them enough money, but because the govt rules said that if you work at all, you lose all your support!
I've met the mentally disabled, but we've already discounted them, they're more victims of bad health care (more HMO's) than of poverty.
Members of the above, groups, it's not their fault. They should be treated and assisted, and (in the case of the mentally disabled) required to take their pills. Absolutely. Give them all they need, and ADD TO IT if they find a job they can do. Change the regulations that hamstring people who work part-time.
I've met the drug-addled. That's their fault.
I've met the fiscally irresponsible. That's their fault, too. You're not going to win the lottery, and you don't really need mag wheels and a DVD player if your kids' clothes have holes.
I've met the personally irresponsible. The folks who frittered away their time in school going to parties and keggers and concerts and crap, or who majored in elementary basketweaving. Or they shacked up right out of high school. Or they started making babies before they started making money. Their fault.
I've met the cheaters. They buy skoal and whiskey (and lots more useless junk) with food stamps. Sometimes they use several names, and they constantly move from destroyed place to about-to-be-destroyed place.
I've met the nothings. They do nothing but hang out all day reading conspiracy books and trying to sneak a peek at porn on the internet. Then they cash their monthly check and go home and vegetate. They aren't interested in work. It cramps their style.
We should care for the children of these mistakes, if they were also irresponsible enough to have any, but we shouldn't pay these people to keep making mistakes, OR children. Give any existing kids a better environment with some childless couple. Streamline adoption. (How do we stop them from churning out more? I dunno. Maybe those folks in California were right, and we should make Norplant a condition to receive your check. Is there Norplant for men yet?)
I live in one of the most economically depressed areas in the country, and I've never met a person who was out of a job, wanted a job, tried to get a job, was a responsible person, was capable of working, and still couldn't get a job.
I've met the 'laid off.' The vast majority didn't stay unemployed for long. But the laid-off already get support. I've never, ever known anyone who was out-of-work (and not on leave or sebatical) for the entire duration of the 2 years that a person is eligible for welfare.
So I need an example of a few of these 'pukes,' please.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Here's an insightful online rant on the subject from someone I just happen to know... he's got more experience on the subject, being many years my senior:
quote:It's Check Day......
Well, it's the first of the month, and once again, the government (both state and federal) have mailed out those packets of joy to the teeming masses. Yes, that's right, it's Check Day. Why the capital letters? Look, if somebody forgot to capitalize Christmas, or Haunakah, or Kwanza. you'd be pretty upset, right? Well, for a great segment of the population, Check Day is a high holy day, and it comes twelve times a year. And a lot of us are paying for the presents.
It is my contention that inside every little packet of taxpayer funded, computer generated fun the government mails out, they include a bus pass to the nearest mall, along with instructions on how to totally destroy the sanity of anyone unfortunate enough to work at said mall. And don't let my continued ability to generate these love letters dissuade you from the truth of this theory; I had very little sanity to begin with, so the difference is negligible. It is also my belief that the use of these packets is dependent on the receiver's following these instructions to the letter. I really don't think I'm the only one who realizes this either. 51% of my customers seem to stay far, far away on Check Day. Who knows, maybe they're not very religious. For those of us who depend on the mall for our living, we are forced to work yet another "holiday". This must be the reason for the skewing of my numbers.
So in they come, these revelers in the Church Of The Dole. They frolic, they caper, and they generally make asses of themselves and me, as I chase around behind them trying to limit the damage. Their children trail behind them, like shabbily dressed dwarves chasing Snow Off-White and Prince Alarming. The dwarves feet clatter in their three-for-a-dollar plastic sandals, as they attempt to match the strides of their Air Jordan shod parents. At least there is no worry as to their nutritional needs; the remains of their Lunch-a-Roni is evident on their clothing, sometimes shirts and pants both. The children enhance their minds with Dr. Seuss, and their bodies with leaps to the top shelves of the magazine rack, while the Prince and his consort decide which new MicroSoft publication to purchase, and whether $49.99 is enough to spend on a good hint book for Final Fantasy. They're even considerate enough to gently boot the urchins out of harms way, if their piles of discarded heavy-metal magazines threaten to knock over that new crystal vase they just had to have for the top of the new 50 inch television.
What's that? Are you asking me if I have a problem with unbridled spending, some of which will eventually find it's way into my cash register? No, that's not it at all. I am a big fan of spending money, especially somebody else's money. Which brings me to my point:
OUR TAX MONEY IS PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS SHIT....
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick and tired of sponsoring other people's shopping sprees. My wife and I work hard for what we earn, as I'm sure you do, but as a member of the retail community, I see what is happening with the money the government is sucking out of our weekly paychecks. I don't see people who receive welfare buying, necessities; they're buying crap. And good crap too. Crap that I could afford if I wasn't paying 28% in federal taxes. I don't hear welfare families discussing the purchase of a resume book; I hear them arguing over whether or not they need two or three wrestling magazines. (And I know I admitted that I watch wrestling, but I know it's fake.)
About twelve years ago, my first wife and I were having some pretty serious financial difficulties. There was a hell of a lot more out-go than there was income, and we were getting desperate. Our son was two years old, and the bulk of our meager food budget was going to feed him. My wife suggested we get Food Stamps, and I hit the roof. A huge argument followed, but eventually, I had to admit she was right. We had to eat.
One thing she said influenced my decision the most. I was working. I was paying taxes. We weren't going to be in bad shape forever. The system was in place to help families who needed it, I had been helping to fund it, and I shouldn't be ashamed to use it for a while. Get it? For a while.
Well, we got the Food Stamps, and we made our first trip to the grocery store. I asked my wife for the list the welfare office had given her. What list, she asked. The list that tells us what we're allowed to get with these things, I said. She looked at me for a minute and replied, There isn't any. The manager at the store confirmed it.
Did any of you know this? Do you realize that if you can stick it in your mouth, chew it, swallow it, not get sick, not die, or not get arrested, you can buy it with Food Stamps? And that's legally! If you watch any of the television news magazines, you've seen all the creative, illegal things you can do with them. This seems very, very wrong.
It also seems wrong that a welfare check can be cashed, and the proceeds spent on anything, legal or illegal. Clothing? Yep, get yourself some, but shop at Wal-Mart, not Saks. Shampoo? Yes. Definitely. Please. Hell, splurge and get the extra-strength, super-deodorant stuff. Phone? Electric? Heat? You betcha. But not cable. And no way should I be paying your ISP bill and the hardware you're using to hook up.
And before you start telling me about welfare reform, let me clue you in to something. Filling out twenty-four applications a week should not entitle you to a check. But right now, that's what a lot of Welfare recipients are doing, and I've got the bulging file cabinet to prove it. I finally had to stop accepting photo-copied applications from the same people week after week. If I'm paying somebody to apply for jobs that they're not qualified for, then damn it, they're going to fill the damn thing out.
Oh, and I just remembered. There was something that I found you weren't allowed to buy with Food Stamps.
Soap.
But then again, you'll have this.....
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Damn First..... Okay, I got half way through it... enough.....
I agree though, go to any rent to own company and ask their account managers what the conditions of the majority of their customers is like....
The 50+ inch TV is in a house with 3 to 5 kids that don't have any thing clean, clothes, dishes, nor any rooms.... The DVD/VCR is there too, under the pile of garbage....
Looking at the things I have seen I would rather spend $50 Billion on a 'space bomber' then give these people money to be unresponsible with....
If it wouldn't make the 'hated' government bigger hiring people on that would act as the credit manager for these dimwits would be an even better option..... This person could go shopping with them, ensuring that they buy the proper stuff....
They have that for people that are 'mentally challenged' now, here in MI...
and
For Christ's sake, what the hell is our government thinking, wanting to protect these malcontents that are treating their children like shit by making the 50+ inch TV their priority... Skip the 'Son-of-Star-Wars' and by everyone a hit of crack...
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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What dead people? Those ICBMs you fear so much haven't even been launched yet, you know
Shall we wait until they are?
Says you. I would submit that any government with the power to deal with the latter but chooses not to is being irresponsible.
And what of the fact that NO government that supposedly had the power to eliminate hunger actually managed to do so? And in fact made it worse?
Unlike you, I don't miss the Cold War. I'd rather forego a few technological advances than live in constant fear.
Our enemies' technology is advancing ANYWAY and it is STILL pointed at us, whether we're reasearching or not. Did you miss that? OUR defence tech level has nothing to do with whether there's a cold war or not.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:OUR defence tech level has nothing to do with whether there's a cold war or not.
Bloody hell. And I thought you did well on your SATs.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
You feel otherwise, Tom? Just how do you define "Cold War"?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:And what of the fact that NO government that supposedly had the power to eliminate hunger actually managed to do so? And in fact made it worse?
Sometimes, and I think this is the case here, I just don't want to let something foolish go unnoticed and uncommented upon....but at the same time i just don't want to unscrew the unthinking can of worms that is Omega's brain.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Thank you, oh perspicacity incarnate, for that ever-useful post.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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