posted
I find the blatent nationalism in that article more than slightly worrying myself.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
It could be argued that Operation Rolling Thunder was an "acceptable" form of terrorism known as warfare.
But that would be inaccurate at best. Terrorism is viewed to be, if not randomly applied, then unfocused, with a random purpose driving it.
What was the purpose, for example, of Sept. 11th? Uh...gee. I can't put my finger on anything all that specific and overriding. I'm sure killing a lot of people in America was one of the goals, but aside from that? Who knows. It could be any number of things.
The act really achieved nothing, other than relatively minor damage to a superpower. It was a savagely fey thing to do, and that is why it is terrorism, not war.
Operation Rolling Thunder, the infamous Zippo raids, and the firebombing of Japan prior to the atomic solution...these actions had a deliberate purpose behind them: Make the Enemy Surrender. Period.
The objective was clear, even if the ethics behind those actions were not. And that is why they are classified as acts of war, not terrorism.
Or, to put it another way: "Inside War lay Terror. But Terror need not make War."
Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Jeff, My Lai wasn't a sanctioned action, in as far as the killing of women and children go. On the other hand, it would have been hushed up, if they had had it contained from the beginning.
The carpet bombings, the nukes, and the such were sanctioned, the nukes from the highest level.
What was the difference between the carpet bombings of the German cities, and the German sinking of the Lusitiania? We won, had we not it would have been written as an atrocity that we did it.
The World Trade Center was two fold, kill a huge group of people, and, cripple the western worlds economies. Financially, they figured, the WTC was the Rome of the western economy, with all dollars leading there. Same reason for the first attack of the truck-bomb.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Even the death toll inflicted by those in US government employ is quite comparable, including several acts of "accidental terrorism", i.e. blowing up civilian transports and habitats due to various oops factors.
Invalid analogy. The US government doesn't purposefully kill civilians for the purposes of inflicting terror. Accidentally, yes. Rogue agents of the government, yes. But the only exception I can come up with is the nuclear attacks on Japan, and there we had little option, and it was more or less guarenteed to force their surrender, so it's not analogous.
"School of the Americas." Operation Condor. Kissinger. Allende. The last song on "The Joshua Tree."
Oh, and ridiculous ideology-blinded naivete.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote: I'm taking this one VERY personally, even though I won't say anything more about it.
That's rather the point. And I rewrote the thing with me in mind, actually. I'm a white, middle class (barely!) male.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:What was the purpose, for example, of Sept. 11th? Uh...gee. I can't put my finger on anything all that specific and overriding.
That's not entirely true.
quote:For many years AL QAEDA wanted to drive the United States from the Arabian peninsula, topple Middle East governments supported by the United States, including Egypt and Israel, and create an Islamic empire based upon its narrow interpretation of the Koran. Over the years, AL QAEDA has grown as it absorbed or allied with other like-minded Islamic terrorist groups, including the EGYPTIAN ISLAMIC JIHAD.
This from a suit (pdf) filed on 3 September 2002 claiming a gagilion dollars in damages from Iraq and various other people.
Al Qaeda would seem to have clear goals.
1. Get the United States armed forces out of Saudi Arabia;
2. Revenge Iraq and punish the United States for sanctions alleged to have caused the death of numerous children;
3. Oppose Isreal and support the Palestinians. The United States supports Isreal. The friend of my enemy is also my enemy.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote: But the only exception I can come up with is the nuclear attacks on Japan, and there we had little option.
That's waaaay open to debate. Even if you justfy the first bomb, what about the second? Oh, and let's not forget the Japanese concentration camps.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
The original post is a bit of email crap that has been making the rounds for some time now, credited to different authors.
It is made up by whomever the original author was, and originally spread by like-minded idiots, it is now more often propagated by those who, in fact, oppose its statements.
Pro or con, the people who spread this spam are going to be the first against the wall (after the televangelists) when I become Emperor.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Good luck. Not even the Chinese Wall's long enough to line 'm all up.
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
But "Chinese Wall" is a grand album. I mean, really--Phil Collins...AND Philip Bailey? The Hitmaking Potential==Infinity!!
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Can any of us prove that we are not going to commit a crime in the future? Fortunately, that little injunction against placing the onus of proof on the accused still stands. At least, it does for now.
And for the past month & into the forseeable future, I've been thanking the gods for that every day & every minute.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I think Jay's list of goals, except for the first one, are largely incidental. The ultimate goal, at least for bin Laden, is to overthrow the Saud family and institute an Islamic republic along strictly Wahabbi lines. The United States is an ally of the royal family, and thus has to be removed from the picture.
But, on the other hand, radical Islam acts as an umbrella under which revolutionary movements of all stripes may gather, often having very little in common with one another. The "capital" of Al Qaeda, after all, wasn't anywhere near Saudi Arabia. Beyond a vague notion of the Holy Land needing to be controled by the right kind of Muslims, I doubt your average Taliban foot soldier cares about the grander scheme. Their goal was to carve out a Greater Islamistan in the far east. Islamic radicals in Thailand want to reestablish an ancient (and rather tiny) sultanate, and get away from Bangkok's rule. So, you know, Al Qaeda's agenda is somewhat nebulous, beyond Saudi Arabia.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Yes. Given the rather nebulous mission statement of the al-Qaeda "organization" (& I use that term VERY loosely), one could go as far as to say that anyone who likes to blow shit up is a terrorist.
In which case, I hereby order the issuance of a warrant for the arrest of one Malcolm Reed.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
