quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: 6. Soukara, a Cardassian planet in the Algira Sector. This was the episode that Dax and Worf went to in "Change of Heart" -- in a dinky little runabout. They ran the gauntlet past Cardassia Prime and into the center of Cardassian-held space in a damn RUNABOUT? A border planet I could understand... but 10 to 15 light-years? Sheesh...
Maybe it is a border planet... on the "north" side of the Cardassian Union. What we could really use in a reference work like this is a 3D CD-ROM. It's so hard to judge perspective in 2D. As far as the Deep Space problems... I think Starfleet just has a fetish for cool sounding names.
The DMZ looks a little weird to me too. Anyone have Admiral Nechayev's map from "Journey's End" handy? I know it's in the TNG ITM and Captain's Chair... is this still set for a release next month?
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It has been a long time since I have seen much of DS9, but that early civilization was more along the lines of the Babylonians or the Romans, wasn't it? A strictly historical period for Cardassia Prime. I don't recall it being said whether they came before or after spaceflight, even. They certainly wouldn't still have an empire. Unless, of course, I am missing some crucial piece of information.
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capped
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it was a brief reference, but i believe the parallel the episode was trying to draw was that the Hebitian artifacts were like Egyptian artifacts, i.e. the remnants of early Cardassian civilizations. there was certainly no reference to it being an offworld occupation, like the Klingons and the Hurq.
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I'm afraid I'm to blame for the DMZ weirdness - Mandel borrowed the shape of the Cardassian space from the map I mangled out of Chris R�hl's material. The DMZ was something that only concerned Sisko in a select few episodes, brought him against Fleet people he never saw before or after, and didn't show up in the maps that depicted the space between Bajor and Cardassia. So I sort of truncated it half a sector away from Bajor.
I'd have been happier with a different arrangement, but IMHO the relative position and size of the Badlands had to correspond to the DS9 TM map at least roughly. Hiding in there wouldn't be that much of a problem for the Maquis, really, if we assume their ships were in the runabout performance ballpark. We already have to give the runabouts pretty long legs, to allow Sisko and pals to visit so many star systems.
By squinting hard, I can make myself see the Equinox disappearance date as 2370, although it does look more like 2373. Bummer. I can read the lines for the Equinox, Voyager, Tian An Men and Denver, but what ship was lost below the words "Bajor Sector"?
Nice to see that the UFP-explored space has lots of discontinuities, separate charted oases connected with thin lines, and so forth. Also nice that the more distant part of the Cardassian-UFP border only becomes well-defined and clear-cut in 2370, and part of it still isn't as of 2377... I like fuzzy logic.
posted
What possible use can the Badlands be as a strategic base for the Maquis, though, when many of their planets are on the opposite side of Cardassian space? How are they supposed to get there? Why not somewhere like that Hugora Nebula, which has the advantage of being on the Federation side of the zone (Starfleet being the friendlier of the two parties, and thus easier to spoof and avoid) and is much closer.
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Well, Badlands can be reached from the "north" half of the DMZ by flying across the "gulf" of the Bajor sector. And that sector is Maquis-sympathetic wilderness, with the semi-friendly Feds the only authoritarian presence, and a weak one at that. Also, DS9 immediately becomes a logical center for gunrunning when Maquis assets are distributed on both sides of it.
Also, historically one would expect the belt of UFP colonies to continue from the top left end of the DMZ towards "northwest", since this is where the border apparently formerly ran. While no DMZ is shown along that section of the belt, it would still provide friendly access for the colonists from the DMZ to the Badlands and beyond. In fact, this stretch of the belt would be the safest staging area for the militant Maquis, completely outside the reach of the Cardassians.
Of course, were a map to be devised with direct access from the DMZ to the Badlands, things would be simpler. And a closer look at the map we saw in "For the Cause" in fact shows that the DMZ does run along the UFP/Cardassian border all the way to the Badlands. It just becomes a heck of a lot thinner when it passes between Bajor and Cardassia... Which may be why it doesn't show up on Mandel's map! There would be no Maquis planets on that narrow section of the Zone, but there might be a safe passage for them there. So just reinterpret that yellow dotted line as part of the DMZ and not just as another "regular" border...
Timo Saloniemi
[ September 10, 2002, 04:04: Message edited by: Timo ]
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DoughBoy
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Attn Timo I think thats the U.S.S. Honshu getting blown up on is way to SB 621 with Dukat and Sisko aboard just below the "Bajor Sector" sign.
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Well, the title "Hebitian Empire" is darker than the others, which might indicate that this once was the Hebitian Empire. If so, perhaps these maps will show ancient Tkon and Iconian territories?
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A little nit I have (something I noticed whilst watching "The Price" TNG the other day). When LafOrge and Data realize they're in the Delta Quadrant, and not the Gamma Quadrant, they say something like: "We're not in the Gamma Quadrant. We're 200 lightyears from where we should be...in the Delta Quadrant."
Which means, if the Ferengi pod didn't have warp drive (which it might have), the planet they crashed on would have to be about 200 lightyears from the Gamma Quadrant and so would part of Voyager's course to the AQ.
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That's true... if I wanted to acknowledge one of the most horrifying examples of sheer idiocy represented by the Voyager crew -- rivaled only the unmentionable "Spirit Folk."
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Indeed. Then again, perhaps Data was saying "We are not only no longer in Kansas, we are 200 ly away from where MY calculations (which put us in the Delta quadrant) indicated we would end up being." To which LaForge is too daft to answer "Hey, waitaminit, what calculations? You *knew* we were going to end up in the middle of the *wrong* nowhere?"
Seriously, I guess Data could have analyzed the original Barzan data and determined that their probe in fact ended up in the Delta quadrant after all. And the shuttlepods also ended up in Delta, but 200 ly away from the probe's destination. Which was enough to prove to Data that his analysis was the correct one, and the wormhole wasn't stable.
Two further potential mistakes I spotted: the locations of "For the Cause" (the Holor nebula and the Bajoran colony) don't correspond to the wall map seen in the episode. That map placed the colony planet to the right of DS9, in the immediate vicinity (which makes sense since the travel times were mere hours for Kasidy's old freighter).
Also, the planet Togra in the middle of Cardassian space is probably a reference to the world from "The Ship", yet that world supposedly was on the other side of the wormhole. But of course there could also be a Cardassian world of the same name.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Which means, if the Ferengi pod didn't have warp drive (which it might have), the planet they crashed on would have to be about 200 lightyears from the Gamma Quadrant and so would part of Voyager's course to the AQ.
And the significance of this is - considering that we have no idea where in the Gamma Quadrant the Bajoran wormhole terminates - what exactly?
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The significance is that the map does not seem to reflect such a close approach to the Delta/Gamma border by Voyager.
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quote:3. The NX-01 has travelled more than a hundred light-years in a single year, in 2151... but the Cardassians, who are only 70 light-years from Earth, are an unknown power until the 2330's?
Interesting, cause I also see Trill (Trillius Prime) is right near Bajor and The Cardassian Union. Mayweather had BEEN to Trill.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Naah. Mayweather had been to Trillius Prime. The connection with Trill is yet to be established anywhere outside this work.
I suspect the Cardassians were a known quantity in Kirk's time already. They just didn't happen to be all that aggressive at the time. And Kirk had plenty of less ugly races to visit.
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