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Which postulates the Eugenics Movement was carried past the collapse of the NAZI regime in the 1940's.
For me, the Earth of Star Trek is a different place entirely. Though there are similaties in names, places, and events, overall their Earth is not our Earth. What is the line at the end of movies? "Any similarity to names or events is coincidental and not intentional." Are those the correct words? Anyway, I think you get at what I am saying.
Registered: Sep 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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posted
Welcome to the world of legalese.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by O Captain Mike Captain: the dissolution of the U.S. isnt the only logical conclusion that could be drawn from that line though.
i believe the novel 'Federation' put forth the idea that WW3 was a big internal problem for a lot of countries, politically and militarily, with a movement springing up that caused the secession of some states from the Union. (this was tied to a reference to Colonel Green also, people from within national militaries betraying or overthrowing their governments)
i think thats a more tasteful solution.. basically, the US government was forced to divide along certain lines, leaving one or more states out of the Union (although with the possibility that they would reform later)
That's a possible theory. The only problem: World War III ended in 2053 according to "First Contact" -- and that's a hell of a lot more canon than any old novel. It's improbable in the extreme that the United States would hold together for nearly 30 years after a nuclear holocaust, and THEN decide to break up.
Plus, since 2079 is post-First Contact, we have to extrapolate based on the premise that the Vulcans helped "unite Humanity in a way no one thought possible." Does that sound like there would be ANOTHER major world conflict afterwards?
My belief is that after First Contact, there was slow improvement at first, centered around a few of the major remaining cities where the Vulcans would provide initial aid. Things would spread out from there, but since Earth would basically have to rebuild most or all of the planetary infrastructure, reconstruction was probably uneven -- which would explain Q's raucous courtroom scene from "Encounter at Farpoint." Although there were a few types of people there, remember the distinctly Chinese official there... which probably implies an East Asian area which was still in essential anarchy by that time; and there'd probably be others too. The Vulcans would've been willing to help, but they either wouldn't or couldn't expend the massive effort required to completely restore the entire planet so quickly -- and it'd require the cooperation of the locals anyway, which probably wasn't always a given.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Free ThoughtCrime America: Okay then, where does Trek History start diverging from real world history? (Just for the Earth, anyway, leaving out Alien Contact and so on)
You've got the Eugenics War in the nineties. Which must have been prefaced by some stuff in the eighties and seventies. (Possibly the war originated over the introduction of Velcro? Hmmm)
Things obviously have taken a very strange turn by, say 1989 or so, considering that Trek 4 seemed pretty much like our world. No hint of genetic super-men running around, anyway.
Read the book "The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh", parts 1 & 2 by Greg Cox. Everything will be explained. Oh and BTW, have guys seen the latest info on the Saturn mission? Oh, and does anyone here know whether or not I can still get tech support for my Chronowerx PC, because it is starting to do some wierd stuff?
-------------------- Fry- How will we get out of this? George Takei's head- Maybe we can use some kind of auto-destruct code like one-A, two-B, three-C... (Bender's head blows up) Bender- Now everybody knows! -Futurama's obligatory Star Trek episode
Registered: Aug 2001
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I agree with The_Tom in this respect. Star Trek is not unlike other fiction in depicting a slightly different world than we know it. Making a difference between fiction and science fiction doesn't really help here, maybe only one between satire and "serious" fiction.
So we have to neglect facts like persons or streets that don't exist. Maybe the orbital platforms in the Trek Universe of 1968 may still be reconciled with our real world (they were only mentioned, and it was a lot of cold-war propaganda anyway). But anything surrounding Khan definitely didn't take place. We have to draw a line somewhere.
In this respect, it may be seen as a rather insignificant question if the presidents are identical to those in our world. On the other hand, as I know B&B, they clearly intend the Star Trek world up to our present to be identical to our real world, which has become always more evident in recent episodes. We may have to wait until 2151 if their prediction of the presidents is correct.
-------------------- Bernd Schneider
Registered: Mar 1999
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Doesn't the very fact that modern Trek has differed with TOS (and themselves) about "present-day" stuff tend to make this all slightly pointless anyway?
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Besides, "Friends" never did an episode involving parallel timelines.
Wrong.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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To nitpick the nitpicker, if I'm thinking of the same episode you are, actually, that was a "What If?" episode in the same vein as Futurama's Anthologies of Interest, and not strictly another timeline.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Did Janeway ever state the year when part of the California coast sunk? That would be a particularly noticable occassion for divergence...
-------------------- 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.' - Lazarus Long
Registered: Feb 2001
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
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i think that the Trek world and our world diverged with Gene Roddenberry started writing a TV show that was kinda like Wagon Train, but only in the stars. you might have heard of it...
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Except I'd call it a fair bet to say there wasn't an Edith Keeler in the Depression, or a union-organizing ancestor of O'Brien's gunned down in turn-of-the-century Boston, or a genetic superman named Khan born in 1965.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
but there were, because Roddenberry had this magical pencil that would change history whenever he wrote. it's kind of like this episode of Eerie, Indiana where this kid had a magical pencil, and whatever he drew with it became real. i wish i had one *yowza*. my bed wouldn't be cold tonight...
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Well, uh, what makes pre-1966 stuff subject to magic pencils and post-1966 stuff "a divergent timeline?" Surely we can just invoke the pencil for everything, the same way any other show does.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
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