posted
I would guess two reasons for Troi being in a dress while Riker is in a dress uniform:
1) The Star Trek reason: Troi is a woman, and from what I understand, women, even in the Trek universe, like to wear frilly things at their weddings, where men pretty much are happy to wear whatever is in their closet. A dress uni is pretty much like a tuxedo, anyway...
2) The real world reason: Sirtis is a woman and not too hard to look at. Showing a little skin for the fan boys on screen never hurt opening weekend.
Have we ever seen a one-pip admiral? I know we've had this concersation before, but I don't remember what we came up with. My guess is that the PTB feel one pip will be too hard to see. But that's just a guess.
Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged
Well, during Season 1 admirals wore a gold braid with pips beneath the braid. We've seen two Admirals (Jameson and Quinn) who only had the braid but no pips. That'd be a one-pip admiral in the later seasons.
Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
nah, while i accept that Kathy could conceivably make Admiral, i doubt she'd be promoted again within a couple years. the date wrangling doesnt work. And i doubt theres a correlation betwen the season 1 admiral braid and the later admiral pippage.. too many uncertainties.
besides, it was clearly stated that Quinn was a 'senior admiral' (in 'Conspiracy') and placing him at the bottem of the totem seems to contradict that.
i think in a novel (ooh listen to you guys shake) they simply said that Commodore was an exceedingly rare rank and was, most often times skipped.
By the way, the Braxton story would actually be a fascinating epilogue for the Voyager series.. Braxton appears and grabs the technology.. they probably could get a great story out of that (anyone read the New Frontier comic 'Double Time'?. lotsa good Braxton stuff there...)
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:besides, it was clearly stated that Quinn was a 'senior admiral' (in 'Conspiracy') and placing him at the bottem of the totem seems to contradict that.
Beverly Crusher was just a Commander but Head of Starfleet Medical during Season 2. So, Quinn can be a Rear Admiral (lh) but nevertheless a senior admiral.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
i dont see the analogy you are making. Beverly was assigned a position, not a rank.
to put it simply: i dont think the season 1 admiral ranks mean what you think they do.
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Mabye they sold Janeway on a "special" rank: complete with a tiny windowless office...
Now that she's a federation celebrity, they probably send her on the "goodwill tours" of the federation to show the flagg.
As for the novels: I really liked Data being a Commedore in Imzadi : It made me think of Commedore 64
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
...or mabye Janeway is heading up Starfleet R&D to try to replicate the future tech left behind by the future Janeway.
....or mabye the "future Janeway" was smart enough to build in some kind of self destruct into the Transphasic torpedos and armor generators so as not to pollute the timeline.
...or mabye it's an oversight by the costume department.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, Quinn could be a "senior" by physical age and service years, never mind his rank or position.
And Janeway... Well, she's got Kirk's flag rank now. Whatever mechanism propelled Kirk past the one-pip rank could be at work here, too. "If you successfully pull off a deep space mission five years or longer in duration, skip O-7 and go straight to O-8", or something like that.
posted
Let's see... as I understand the rank of Commodore (a one pip admiral, right?), it is the command of a small fleet of vessels. When Picard commanded the fleet in "Redemption", he was serving as a Commodore. Yes, it was a temproary position, and perhaps that kind of command structure isn't in general use anymore. However, the rank might still exist for use in specialized circumstances, such as war time, or if there is an on going conflict in a specific sector. Since Janeway's duties possibly don't involve that kind of command, but focus more on administration, she was promoted immediately, or very quickly, to Rear Admiral. Just a guess, but it makes sense to me.
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
well TNG is reflecting the modern makeup of the USN, which in the past few decades phased out the rank of Commodore and instituted two grades of Rear Admiral (one star and two star)
but since they never show one pip, i assume that no one actually gets that grade, but it could be reserved for Commodores, that being the honorary title granted a Captain who has a fleet command (the difference being that 'commodore' in that sense is a title or position, not a rank.. i.e. if there are more than one captain present, the senior/commanding captain will be referred to as 'commodore' but not have any accompanying change in grade)
BTW, i think the precedent set by Kirk is that this rank is skippable, since both Kirk and Janeway did exactly that, but other officers stop at that rank to to unknown qualities of their specialization/career.
Even though TNG has done away with the rank commodore, i'd like to imagine that its still possible to see one from time to time (the novel reference i recall was from one of 'Shatner's' novels, Riker met a commodore and mused that the rank was exceedingly rare, most officers skipped it, it wasnt required, but it was still possible)
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Just a little note: in the napoleonic RN commodore wasn't a rank, it was an appointment. Like Picard's stint in Redemption, it was temporary; once the task had been completed the officer reverted to Captain. Despite this a Commodore had a different rank insignia to a captain and a broard pendant (some sort of flag) to distinguish hm. Starfleet could have a similar arrangement.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:well TNG is reflecting the modern makeup of the USN, which in the past few decades phased out the rank of Commodore and instituted two grades of Rear Admiral (one star and two star)
I agree on that. This is also reflected by the rank pips. The TNG pips have more in common with the USN rank stripes than with the TOS rank stripes:
TNG_____________________USN full pip___________________full stripe hollow pip________________half stripe
Therefore I presume that the Admiral's braid is comparable with the four stripes close together of USN admirals. In "Conspiracy" we've seen Aaron with braid and two pips and the Vulcan admiral with braid and one pip.
quote:BTW, i think the precedent set by Kirk is that this rank is skippable
What precedent? His 5-year-mission ended 2270 and maybe he was promoted to Commodore directly after coming home. And before TMP (was it 2272 or 2273) he was promoted to Rear Admiral.
quote:the novel reference i recall was from one of 'Shatner's' novels
That reference was rather confusing. One time it was a rank, then a position, then both. I got the impression, Shatner (or whoever wrote the book) didn't know what he was writing about.
Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
In any case, TOS had Commodores mainly in adminstrative postings - starbase commanders and the like. So that won't really explain why Kirk and Janeway, both apparently desk jockeys, would skip the rank.
Of course, TMP could have taken place later than 2272-73, giving more time for the double promotion. And "Nemesis" could also take place later than we think. It's up to future Trek episodes and movies to give a more exact fix of the dates of those two movies.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
