posted
You know, it just occurred to me that the tiny Janeway cameo was probably the most closure we'll ever see for the Voyager series - and more closure than we saw in all of "Endgame".
And in a wierd, mucked up way, I like this fact. For all the hatred many of us share of Voyager, it was good to see that SOMETHING happened after the end of the series. We can forever debate the reasons for Janeway's promotion, but it showed us that the show did in fact happen, and that at least one of the characters has been able to get back to life after seven years in the Delta Quadrant. Whether good or bad, it's closure. And if you think about it, it's a great little sideways reference to the series as a whole, and I found it a welcome addition to "Nemesis".
I'm not sure if I'm making tons of sense here.. Does anyone understand what I'm driving at?
posted
I understand what you're getting at, and I suppose I agree, but it's barely an afterthought as far as the film goes. I mean, it isn't like the scene contains any connection to Voyager besides the name of one of the characters. If there's anyone in Starfleet who shouldn't be awed by Picard's experience with the Borg, for instance, it's Janeway.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Why wouldn't she have been promoted? She was the captain of a ship that single-handedly mapped a good portion of a previously-to-the-Federation unknown quadrant, made First Contact with more new species than any other individual captain in Starfleet history, including Kirk. And managed to get her crew and ship home....and dealt a crippling blow to the Borg.
posted
I didn't love Voyager, but I liked it. Kirk was promoted to Admiral as well. Based on her actions and such, I think she earned it just as much as Kirk earned his promotion.
-------------------- Picard: Mr. Crusher, what's our maximum speed this week? Wesley: [checking manual] Uh, 9.4, sir. Picard: Very good. Take us to Warp 9.8 then. Wesley: Aye, sir. Warp 9.2 it is.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
As for Picard, well, I think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to go anywhere. He has enough seniority that he can pull off not being promoted.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm glad I saw this movie, as it has made it pretty clear that Star Trek movies have finally reached the level of "Batman and Robin" and that they are therefore close to extinction (Note to self -- Star Trek movies are now in the unwatchable category, right below Enterprise. Remember to buy the DS9 DVD set).
All of the warning signs are there -- the overblown, stylish costume on Shinzon, the overblown, stylish ships, illogical plot, purposeless violence and kewlness, loads of injokes.
Whereas "Insurrection" felt like an average TNG episode, this doesn't even feel like TNG, more like a cheap reinvention using the same characters. You can't throw out Ron Moore, bring in an outsider and expect quality. TNG was run creatively by Gene Roddenberry and Michael Piller, DS9 by Piller and Ira Behr, Voyager by Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor, the first two movies by Ron Moore and Brannon Braga, the second by Michael Piller, and Nemesis by Rick Berman, John Logan and Brent Spiner? An outsider and two insiders that never were in any of the primary creative teams?
I don't even feel like rationalizing the events in this movie, it's almost as pointless as rationalizing "Batman and Robin".
BTW, I just noticed I posted in the wrong thread, but it's not like any thread is on-topic forever.
posted
I really don't think this gives much of a closure on Voyager at all. All we know is that Janeway ended up at an admiral with a nice office. We have no idea about the other officers and crew of the ship nor what became of the ship herself. However, I agree that is probably going to be the most closure we get on that series unless a novel clears it up for us (and, yes, I know it would be non-canon).
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
While there is a distict camp that supports the notion of promotion = punishment, it may not necessarily be the case. Kirk got promoted, was miserable for years, and was delighted to be demoted. He gave Picard that advice, which he apparently followed. Janeway, childless mom that she is, could easily be seen jumping at the chance to play matriarch over whole fleets of officers. And then there's Sisko, who according to his hallucination of Nechayev (and I believe a competition with Cal Hudson) has always wanted a promotion to the Admiralty. At least in his case, he just didn't get around to it before he up and ascended - stoopid war. Even future-Riker from "All Good Things" seemed happy with his rank, happier still since he still got to fly around in the souped up E-D - and he was potentially younger than Picard is now!
What I'm saying is that promotion IN GENERAL can't be seen as a punishment for our heroes. Janeway and Sisko could have had it in their minds since day one, and Kirk likewise, since he accepted promotion in the first place.
Getting back to the topic, while Janeway obviously had on her avant-garde-let's-small-talk-with-Picard masque going, at least she is getting on with her job. That she IS still serving with Starfleet is something in itself, and possibly an indication of how things went... I mean, would she be so chipper if Chakotay, Paris and Torres had been thrown in jail, Seven dissected for her nanotech, Tuvok toasted by his aneurysm thing, Neelix cooked up for supper, the Doc scrubbing conduits somewhere, and Kim still an Ensign? Surely none of that has happened, and I take her appearance and demeanor is a sort of metaphor that things are alright with her old crew - she has seen fit to move on (unlike her future self in "Endgame"), and the rest of the crew has too. THAT is the closure that I'm talking about.
posted
That's a good point, and one that I hadn't considered before, Mark. I suppose we could take to mean that everything went well for the Voyager crew following their debriefing. I'd still like to know specifics, though.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Voyager exploded and only Janeway survived.
-------------------- Picard: Mr. Crusher, what's our maximum speed this week? Wesley: [checking manual] Uh, 9.4, sir. Picard: Very good. Take us to Warp 9.8 then. Wesley: Aye, sir. Warp 9.2 it is.
Registered: Mar 1999
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-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
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