posted
Hey, beam the party down to look at all the body parts lying around. Have the ion storm strike, and the heroes unable to beam back up. Have the uglies turn up in their dune buggies now that the storm blocks sensors. Have Picard and pals carjack a buggy, and run like hell towards a shuttlecraft pickup.
That way, there isn't even the logical flaw of Shinzon planting the parts in a location where Picard's life is in danger. It wouldn't be, if not for the ion storm that Shinzon couldn't predict.
You could insert the dialogue about Picard's newly gained taste for fast cars in there easily enough. And you could show off the Argo, and do the leaping trick, and all.
quote:Originally posted by TSN: There may have been reasons for the dune buggy, but those reasons were placed there by the same person who put the dune buggy there in the first place. You say that beaming wasn't an option. Why not? Because the writer made it not an option? What was stopping him from writing the scene so that they beam down to each part and beam back up?
By that logic Shinzon should of been a female romulan named Sela. But it wasnt! because the writer didnt want it to be. He made it a clone of Picard, which in turn lead to the personal nature of this enemy.
The point is.. they didnt beam beause they didnt. Period. Its obvious that they would use transporters if they could, but they didnt. Every event in any piece of fiction leads to another event. If one thing didnt happen, the next wouldnt.
Why did the Enterprise-E win the battle near the end.. because the writer said it did.
What stopped him from writing the scene so that they beam down to each part and beam back up was that ITS FRIGGEN BORING. Do you really want to see them just beam up the pieces or do you want to see them take a dune buggy down and engage some 'bad guys' in a high-speed chase.
quote:Originally posted by Timo: That way, there isn't even the logical flaw of Shinzon planting the parts in a location where Picard's life is in danger. It wouldn't be, if not for the ion storm that Shinzon couldn't predict.
Shinzon didnt plant the parts where Picard would be in danger to begin with, since its pretty common knowledge that Picard doesnt (read: shouldnt) go on away missions anyway. Shinzon probably thought that if anyone was in danger, it would be the first officer and some crew... no one he cared about.
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
quote:Originally posted by Proteus: What stopped him from writing the scene so that they beam down to each part and beam back up was that ITS FRIGGEN BORING. Do you really want to see them just beam up the pieces or do you want to see them take a dune buggy down and engage some 'bad guys' in a high-speed chase.
Gods forfend that we should be BORED. There's a difference between "suspension of disbelief" & "What the fuck was THAT?!?" absurdity. The chase not only crossed that line, it went trolling for cod to take to Grandma's house. It would be like if Indiana Jones had nowhere to go, no more ideas, went out for a walk in the desert, & oop! just tripped over the topstone to the Well Of The Souls, which had just magically been uncovered just enough after 5000 years for HIM to find by stubbing his toe on it. No. Poor planning (NO planning?) & poor conceptual flow.
quote:Shinzon didnt plant the parts where Picard would be in danger to begin with, since its pretty common knowledge that Picard doesnt (read: shouldnt) go on away missions anyway. Shinzon probably thought that if anyone was in danger, it would be the first officer and some crew... no one he cared about.
Buh? Is he Kreskin now? Or just the Stupendous Yappi?
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
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"Do you really want to see them just beam up the pieces or do you want to see them take a dune buggy down and engage some 'bad guys' in a high-speed chase."
I'd rather hear them say that they are going to beam the parts up, then see them skip ahead to where the parts are all beamed up. The time saved could be used for something interesting.
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quote:Originally posted by Shik: It would be like if Indiana Jones had nowhere to go, no more ideas, went out for a walk in the desert, & oop! just tripped over the topstone to the Well Of The Souls, which had just magically been uncovered just enough after 5000 years for HIM to find by stubbing his toe on it[/QB]
Saw that one. It was called Temple of Doom.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, Temple of Doom was good and Nemesis sucked. So I'm not getting the comparison.
Besides, Indiana Jones movies are like James Bond movies. They're supposed to be action-packed adventures that are simply fun and entertaining to watch. I used to like to believe that Star Trek was something just a little bit more than this. My mistake, I guess...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Somehow I always get this feeling of self-fulfilling prophecy when reading most of your comments.
I went to see Nemesis yesterday, biased as hell against the film by knowing so much beforehand and reading all the negative remarks and so forth.
You know what? I THOROUGLY ENJOYED this film!!! Throw your stones, bash me if you like, but I couldn't find a lot of things that are wrong with Nemesis.
The story was Star Trek II meets TNG - so what? It made for an exciting, funny and touching movie. I liked the dark atmosphere and the new ideas they tried. Take the ramming scene near the end. Wasn't that the only realistic choice? No more torpedoes, Phaser power down to a minimum, auto destruct system destroyed. Hardly any power to speak of. What else could they have done?? Sure, it was intended as a "Cool as hell" sequence - which it was, judging from the reactions of everyone in the cinema, including myself - but I think it fitted in the story perfectly. Like so many other things you are critisizing. Moreover, I think it was the first Trek movie where CGI effects looked almost as realistic as model effects. (I particularly liked the spacedock sequence near the end, with that spacedock being in orbit over Europe, Italy in particular - a nice touch to show that the Star Trek world does not exist solely of America!!)
Also, you should have seen the reaction of the audience when Data died. Stunned silence and some remarks like "this can't be happening". Total shock. I seem to have been the only one knowing the fact beforehand. Somehow I regret this. Now I would rather have liked to have gone into the cinema not knowing anything. But can't be helped - I liked the film all the same.
And the soundtrack IMHO was one of the best in any Trek movie - and that to me is always the icing on the cake.
I will definitely go and see this at least once or twice more!
Why it wasn't a hit at the box office in the US? Bad timing and bad publicity - that's all! As soon as people go to the film wanting to believe that it's bad, it's no wonder they will be led to that belief in the end.
Just my two cents...
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Well, the thing is, the things you've mentioned enjoying aren't the things that most people have been criticising.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I know, but there is still something I don't understand. Normally I can follow rational critisizm, but this is different. Most comments just seem like simple "bash as much as you can". Almost nobody seems to be willing to watch the movie and at the same time leave their hatred of B&B outside the cinema. I don't like what they have done to Star Trek either, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying Nemesis for what it is - an entertaining Star Trek film.
The only critisizm I can really understand is the one about the dune buggy sequence - that was totally un-Star-Trek. But is one sequence really enough to ruin the enjoyment of a whole film?
Or your own point of disconnection. I read that posting right on the day before I went to the cinema, and to be honest I can't understand what you mean. I tried to find disconnected scenes but didn't find any - exept for a weird cut near the end where Picard is looking at the camera at the end of a scene and they cut to Picard at his desk talking to B4. That cut seemed extremely odd, but just from a technical standpoint. Not that it interfered with the story.
And another one. Someone around here critisized Riker for being an idiot (or something to that effect), because in a trailer for Nemesis he ordered "bring us about" after Data said that forward shields were down to ten percent. Well, the thing is that in the final film, these statements occur at different points in time so that they are not connected like in the trailer and therefor actually do make sense. But of course it's convenient to critisize something before even having seen it.
But of course personal taste is a difficult subject. I'm just sad that many of us have started - mainly because of bias - to bash the franchise we once loved/liked/enjoyed.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Well, I enjoy a good car case, and for a car chase, this was done well. I'm sorry most of you are so above a action scene that you'd rather see something more 'intresting', but I enjoy that sort of thing.
Its a shame your 'superior intellect' gets in the way. Life would be much more fun if you enjoyed things for what they were, not what they could be, especially if you do not have the power to change whatever it happens to be.
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And I didn't dislike the car chase in itself. I enjoyed it as an action piece. I just thought it seemed a bit odd having Mad Max in a Star Trek environment.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
quote:Originally posted by Proteus: Well, I enjoy a good car case, and for a car chase, this was done well. I'm sorry most of you are so above a action scene that you'd rather see something more 'intresting', but I enjoy that sort of thing.
Its a shame your 'superior intellect' gets in the way. Life would be much more fun if you enjoyed things for what they were, not what they could be, especially if you do not have the power to change whatever it happens to be.
"Bullitt" it wasn't. "Smokey & the Bandit II" it even wasn't. Nor "Cannonball Run." Come to think of it, the addition of Burt Reynolds would've been a major improvement.
As for "superior intellect," I watch things for reasons. I don't expect "Die Hard" or "Bill & Ted" to be a masterpiece. Neither do I expect anyhting by those "pain technicians" over at Merchant/Ivory to be fast-paced. But there are certain elements that are standard for ANY film--plot, motive, character. Unless it's porn. Or Troma.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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quote: As for "superior intellect," I watch things for reasons. I don't expect "Die Hard" or "Bill & Ted" to be a masterpiece. Neither do I expect anyhting by those "pain technicians" over at Merchant/Ivory to be fast-paced. But there are certain elements that are standard for ANY film--plot, motive, character. Unless it's porn. Or Troma.
What about the connection to Nemesis? It had a plot, motives and character. I just fail to see the point you're trying to make.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
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