posted
I am so sick of those who suggest that Chakotay isn't a terrorist and doesn't deserve to be punished. Yay, he helped Voyager get home. Can you say "motivated self-interest"?
The Maquis are terrorist criminals who through their actions endangered the lives of Federation citizens, citizens of powers engaged in treaties with the Federation, and those treaties themselves.
Maquis operatives did knowingly impersonate Starfleet Officers, hijack Federation starships and facilities, attack Federation starships and personnel, and attacked installations and starships of powers engaged in treaties with the Federation.
The common defense:
"But the Maquis attacked the Cardassians, who later turned out to be evil after all, so it's okay."
No, it's not. The Cardassians went through three distinct governments during the operations of the Maquis: the first, following the collapse of the occupation, was against the termed Cardassian Empire, an aggressive enemy whose actions indeed made the Maquis appear sympathetic in their actions.
The second government came about following a coup which deposed the military government, and installed a civilian goverment - the beginning, one assumes, of a Democratic society. The Maquis' actions during this period - including the hijacking of Deep Space Nine and the theft of industrial grade replicators - endangered the Cardassians' ability to fight against the invading Klingons, leading to needless destruction. From what we've seen of the events leading up to the Klingon invasion, it seems unlikely that the Cardassian government was maintaining its support of the warring colonies in the Badlands which resulted in the creation of the Maquis.
The third government was the result of a Dominion-backed coup led by exiled former Cardassian military officers. As it seems unlikely Dukat would have succeeded without the backing of the powerful Dominion military, the suggestion that all previous attacks on Cardassian resources was "justified" is ludicruous. By helping the Klingons (even indirectly), the Maquis encouraged Dukat to seek a pact with the Dominion for the good of Cardassia.
Keep in mind that to accomplish their goals, Maquis operatives impersonated Starfleet officers (one posed as a Starfleet officer to plant a bomb on a Cardassian freighter, two others impersonated security personnel to kidnap Gul Dukat, and a third impersonated his "twin", Will Riker);hijacked Starfleet starships (Mr. Tom "third charge: Identity Theft" Riker posed as his "clone" William to capture the "Defiant", in the process - Fourth Charge - he kidnapped Major Kira Nerys) and Federation facilities (Lt. Cmdr. Eddington used his position to manipulate events to clear the station of senior officers Riker & Worf so that he could then stun Major Kira and hijack command of DS9 to facilitate the theft of replicators bound for Cardassia); attacked Federation Starships (Commander Hudson's attack on three DS9 Runabouts; Eddington's attack on the Defiant and I believe an Excelsior-Class starship).
I believe the case is clear - the Maquis are terrorists who operated against the interests of the Federation. They deserve jail time, not pardons, even in the case of those like Chakotay and Torres.
posted
I'm sure your average Maquis (those that survived, anyway) weren't simply pardoned once the Dominion excitement calmed down. But, if we're talking about Voyager's crew specifically, I don't think your take on things is how it would "really" turn out. What follows is, of course, just my poorly developed opinion.
Anyway, one, I think you're underestimating or mischaracterizing what the popular opinion of the Maquis would be in post-war Federation society. I think a sizable number of average UFP citizens (including those who wind up being judges, and those who wind up being juries) see the Maquis as essentially being right all along. They were, after all, saying that the Cardassians shouldn't be trusted for years, during which time people who trusted the Cardassians (by, for instance, demilitarizing the borders they shared with them) got burned. Were real crimes committed? Sure. But any court is going to have a very hard time convicting people of crimes that are widely regarded as not being crimes at all. I would imagine that any Maquis who wasn't engaged in blowing up civilians or poisoning wells would wind up with a very light sentence.
As for the Voyager crew, their case is even more magnified. They're all intensely popular Federation icons. They were explicitly engaged in that Cochranian "boldy going" ideal. Chakotay background images are probably extremely valuable LCARS add-ons.
So anyway, were I the judge in charge of trying and sentencing any Voyager Maquis (and note that we don't really know much about what they were up to as actual Maquis, so we can only guess at what sort of things they might be charged with), my inclination would be to say that, yes, crimes were committed, of which the accused is/are guilty. But since they've just spent seven years stuck in conditions that, while often more comfortable than your average prison, were far more dangerous, where they had to work very hard to survive, and still found the energy to do all sorts of valuable things, I'd say their sentence had already been served. And then they're off to a photo op with the Sol Sector High School Soccer Champions, or something.
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posted
This topic is hot over at subspace comms right now too... The Maquis (as a group) were'nt a bunch of "edditingtons" or "Chakotays" but were just settlers forced into a rough situation. No diffrent than the Bajorans in some respects.
Buuuuuut....The crew on Chakotay's raider were definitely responsible for some baaaad crimes. Starfleet sent a state o' the art veseel out to capture this one small hip and went to the considerable risk of Tuvok's undercover mission as well. We never found out why Voyager was sent after the Raider exactly did we? The raider's crew was sure a mixed bunch: Starfleet dropouts, a few bajorans that could'nt stop fighting and Lon Sudor ( a psycho that very likely killed while a member of the Maquis without Chakotay knowing). Compare this with starfleet's response to Eddington. eddington was FAR more dangerous but got less starfleet response (although the Dominion was more of a concern by then too).
I imagine the Maquis crew got pardons upon their return but they sure would'nt have kept their makeshift starfleet commisions.
If you pardon the Maquis, do you prosecute the former Equinox crew?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
I think the Maquis are first mentioned in the TNG ep. Journey's End, where young Wesley gets the crew involved in a conflict about the relocation of some Earth colonists from a planet given to the Cardassians by Federation treaty. I would imply that the Federation was not always operating in the best interest of it's citizens when those types of political moves got made. Uprooting people to stabilize relations and avoid costly war with potentialy hostile outsiders. Talk about self interest.
I always thought the benign empirealism that the Federation and its enforcers in Starfleet bring to the worlds under their influence should cause some resistance sooner or later. The peaceful "paradise" back on Earth is a long way from the outer worlds where a starfleet cruiser may be weeks away from your settlement when the Gorn attack.
I figure if I found myself in that political enviroment often enough I would go rebel too.
Don't be so down on Chakotay, He may have been a terroist, but lets face it, maybe not the best one! He had two starfleet spies in his crew, and his girlfriend was a Cardassian agent! Becoming the first officer of Voyager was his best career move. And he certainly served thereafter with valor, Janeway could'nt have done it without him.
-------------------- Underground Dweller: "Everything you flush ends up here," "This is our library" Fry: "It's nothing but crumpled porn and Ayn Rand"
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posted
One should perhaps ponder whether "being member of a criminal organization" is a crime in the UFP.
I mean, it most definitely is not in most current western nations. Direct complicity in a crime committed by a fellow gang member has to be demonstrated in order to prosecute somebody wearing gang colors. And the Maquis didn't even have gang colors.
In "For the Cause", all Starfleeters seem to agree with Eddington's statement that "the Maquis" are not Federation citizens any more. Does this refer to those who forfeited citizenship through criminal activity (an odd punishment, but perhaps fitting of the crime of being violently anti-establishment)? Or those who unilaterally declared themselves independent (a convenient out for any UFP criminal, one would think)? Who could make such a declaration and make it stick with Starfleet? Individuals? Registered political parties? Planets, star systems or other municipalities?
Could you become a Maquis against your will, when the planetary governor goes space-happy and joins the movement?
Note that in "Blaze of Glory", Eddington now admits the Maquis were only "planning" on declaring independence, supposedly across wide astrographic swathes and not just for individuals or political groups. The refugees in "For the Uniform" appear to consider themselves outside the Federation, though, even though only a minority seem involved in Maquis crimes.
Also, we never really did find out what UFP laws Tom Paris or Chakotay or B'Elanna Torres broke, now did we? We only know that Tom was caught when *failing* to do something for the movement, that Chakotay went AWOL from Starfleet, and that he and B'Elanna waged private war with Cardassian military forces. Did any of these ever even kill a single Cardie?
posted
The Maquis are first mentioned in DS9's two-parter "The Maquis." Remember, it was a complete surprise to Sisko that there was, apparently, a "war" raging in the space. The TNG episode "Journey's End" setup the Maquis - that is, it set the framework for the switchup of Federation/Cardassian colonies from which would lead to the fighting, and thus to the Maquis.
I never thought the Maquis were ALL of the colonists in the area, but rather the Maquis were a band of those who wished to protect the colonies. Certainly many of them were colonists, but that didn't mean all colonists were Maquis.
Jason - regarding Eddington, I disagree. While Voyager was sent to capture one ship, Sisko seemed hell bent on bringing down Eddington's little group, and Starfleet did send out an Excelsior-Class to keep up that mission. All I'm saying is, Eddington didn't exactly get ignored
quote:I always thought the benign empirealism that the Federation and its enforcers in Starfleet bring to the worlds under their influence should cause some resistance sooner or later. The peaceful "paradise" back on Earth is a long way from the outer worlds where a starfleet cruiser may be weeks away from your settlement when the Gorn attack.
I believe that's pretty much exactly what Hudson tells Sisko. Hudson, if you remember, is the Starfleet officer assigned to liason with the colonies.
quote:In "For the Cause", all Starfleeters seem to agree with Eddington's statement that "the Maquis" are not Federation citizens any more. Does this refer to those who forfeited citizenship through criminal activity (an odd punishment, but perhaps fitting of the crime of being violently anti-establishment)? Or those who unilaterally declared themselves independent (a convenient out for any UFP criminal, one would think)? Who could make such a declaration and make it stick with Starfleet? Individuals? Registered political parties? Planets, star systems or other municipalities?
IIRC, "Journey's End" established that if the colonists chose to remain on their colonies, they would lose their Federation citizenship. I forget the particulars of it, and I know it was ignored later, but that's how I recall it. Perhaps someone with the TNG season 7 box set can take 45 minutes and refresh us
posted
The colonists on Dorvan V would certainly lose their citizenship, because that planet was in what would become Cardassian space. However, later episodes introduced the concept of the Demilitarized Zone, which wasn't clearly established as belonging to either of the sides - people living there apparently were in a dissimilar position to that of the Dorvanites. And the first Maquis we heard about, the guy who bombed the Bok'Nor, was referred to as a Federation citizen IIRC.
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: This topic is hot over at subspace comms right now too... The Maquis (as a group) were'nt a bunch of "edditingtons" or "Chakotays" but were just settlers forced into a rough situation. No diffrent than the Bajorans in some respects.
Buuuuuut....The crew on Chakotay's raider were definitely responsible for some baaaad crimes. Starfleet sent a state o' the art veseel out to capture this one small hip and went to the considerable risk of Tuvok's undercover mission as well. We never found out why Voyager was sent after the Raider exactly did we? The raider's crew was sure a mixed bunch: Starfleet dropouts, a few bajorans that could'nt stop fighting and Lon Sudor ( a psycho that very likely killed while a member of the Maquis without Chakotay knowing). Compare this with starfleet's response to Eddington. eddington was FAR more dangerous but got less starfleet response (although the Dominion was more of a concern by then too).
I imagine the Maquis crew got pardons upon their return but they sure would'nt have kept their makeshift starfleet commisions.
If you pardon the Maquis, do you prosecute the former Equinox crew?
typically of the series it is based on, the Voyager relaunch novels kicked off with not quite enough stress on the Maquis issue, i'm not going to spoil the bulk of the novels, but not only were commissions kept, promotions have been given..
on the subject of the Liberty crew, Chakotay and friends always struck me as a 'special ops' kinda unit.. they had attracted the attention of both Federation and Cardassian intel (Tuvok and Seska).. we don't know what they were up to, but one of their missions was reprogramming a (presumably) highly-secret cardie dreadnought missile. It seems to me that if this was kind of a special mission group, that did undercover type shit and pernicious technological warfare, and they did it so well both the UFP and cardies were eager to shut them down. (i recall that Eddington relied on computer-terrorism too, wen he was taunting Sisko).. they were not your typical swamp rebel fighters or terrorist bombers
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quote: typically of the series it is based on, the Voyager relaunch novels kicked off with not quite enough stress on the Maquis issue, i'm not going to spoil the bulk of the novels, but not only were commissions kept, promotions have been given..
I read (and was entertained by) the "Homecoming" novels on the plane but they were even less likely than the series finalle. That's saying a LOT. The odds of anything from the Voyager relaunch novels happening is about the same as washington throwing a ticker-tape parade on behalf of former Taliban members.
I was not saying that starfleet under-reacted to Eddington's crimes, just that Chakotay's actions must ahve been of simmular caliber to warrant undercover ops from both Cardies and Starfleet and starships sent to catch that one ship from both governments. So, aside from hijacking/ reprogramming a WMD of the cardies, the Liberty crew must have been pretty darn bad.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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