posted
I think the whole "backlash" is fuled partly by the reboot (and it is, stop kidding yourselves by saying otherwise), partly because it's TOS - sacred ground to those who like their rulers slidey, their Dungeons Mastered and their pockets protected.
But most of all, I think it's because Star Trek XI: the Quest for The Huge Ticket Returns, going to be a huge summertime hit regardless of fans going to see it or not. We're jealous and worried all at the same time!
-------------------- I have plenty of experience in biology. I bought a Tamagotchi in 1998... And... it's still alive.
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
It's not really jealousy.. more of a concern that "Trek as I know it" (and by that, the original story-telling style, by and large) is "dead" and being "replaced" by something far more shallow and superficial.
Like I said, if they we're really going out of their way to 'kill' TOS, it wouldn't really be an issue, and I could take the new movie much more on its own merits.
posted
People bleat on like this EVERY time a new incarnation of Trek comes along, from TNG to Enterprise it's the same every time. Fact is, whatever "Star Trek" you think is the be all and end all of science fiction is going nowhere; it's on DVD, it's repeated on TV ad nauseam in just about every country on the planet. It's not as if all memory of the old show(s) will somehow disappear of a puff of ignorance. My advise to anyone who thinks this will somehow retroactively destroy their childhood: don't watch it.
quote:One of my biggest 'hates' with the new movie is actually from it's would-be supporters, who basically seem to think that even voicing concerns over any issues is worth throwing someone in the gulags.
This is no place for self-imposed martyrdom and calling people fascists. By and large, Flare opinion about this movie has been negative ever since the announcement of it, only the last few months have there been reason to feel a bit of optimism, it's not like you're fighting a horde of starry-eyed Harry Potter fans, so don't play the victim.
Lee made a constructive and positive post about his views on Trek, you've posted about every third or second post in this thread, answering almost every new entry with hyperbole and wild conjecture about the production team's evil inner motives. I'm just observing here. You're entitled to write what you want, but now no one can reply to your stuff without effectively saying you are either dead-wrong or extremely subjective, and that's pretty poor discussion material. We need a little more gray areas and less black/white polarization here, tbh.
Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Vanguard: It's not really jealousy.. more of a concern that "Trek as I know it" (and by that, the original story-telling style, by and large) is "dead" and being "replaced" by something far more shallow and superficial.
Like I said, if they we're really going out of their way to 'kill' TOS, it wouldn't really be an issue, and I could take the new movie much more on its own merits.
Sorry, but if you want something that emulates the style of 1960s episodic TV drama, then you're just going to always be disappointed. And you haven't seen the film and don't intend to, so how will you know what sort of storytelling style they employ? Ignore how they sell it in the trailers, for one thing. I think the general consensus here (and elsewhere) would be that DS9 represents one certain pinnacle when it comes to intelligent storytelling, but you can be damn certain that when the "Next Time on DS9" bit popped up on screen at the end of an episode, they'd include the bit where the Defiant blows shit up rather than a well-crafted dialogue between Sisko and Gul Dukat!
And as for your second point, that's just crazy talk. All or nothing, is that it? They either "do" TOS exactly how you should feel it should be done, or not even try but set out to dump on it from a great height?! You didn't use to post as EdipisReks, with some rather inflexible views on the Lord of the Rings movies, did you?
The Original Series will live forever. It'll probably be remembered long after a 2009 film remake is largely forgotten. Three words for you: Lost In Space. It'll be online, in syndication and on tape/disc/crystal lattice/whatever. The charm, the often-quaint attitudes and dramatic devices, the groovy outfits, the funky sets, they will always be there. You're not going to get any more iof it, but that's part of the attraction. You want something that goes on forever and never changes, watch The Bold And The Beautiful. Or you can learn to stop worrying, and love the (probably not a box office) bomb.
posted
Here's the thing, how inflexible am I really being? You're operating under the assumption that I'm wanting the best and worst elements of 1960s television, bad SFX and all. Thing is, I've never SAID that. You're also operating under the assumption that I WANT slavish adherence to the Canon as defined by Emporer Okuda... I'm not advocating that either.
What I don't want is something that panders to such a base level that it's an 'also-ran' with just really good CGI (and, face it, this is NOW going up against Transformers II: revenge of the CGI). Super-angsty Kirk, 'pretty boy' casting, Uhura's topless scene, all point to storytelling elements borne of desperation, not of a solid action-adventure base.
I'm not dumping on this movie because it's not slavish to how I see TOS. I'm dumping on it because on its own merits, it looks like crap to me. Being a relaunch of a beloved franchise that looks this bad, well... I suppose I've made that point already.
posted
You do know that the movie studio execs have more to say about trailer contents than the director, right?
If you want to be remotely fair, you'd have to compare it to other trailers in the same genre. For instance, I hated 50% of the trailer for "First Contact" (you're travelers on some kind of star trek!), and Sunshine felt really hammy (stupid "Lux Aeterna" music spam), while becoming my favorite little indie gem of that year. Every Lucasfilm-movie trailer ever has been a jumbled mess of sounds and flashes because they like their Ben Burtt and John Williams too much and must shove everything in at once, but not all Lucasfilm movies have sucked, I think you'd agree. No one's denying that this new movie's key demographic is the high school/college age span, and we're not going to see any decapitations or spurting arteries in this picture (which makes me wonder how the hell "The Undiscovered Country" got off the ground. "Get Chang!"-*aaghagharlb*), but somehow I've found that even smelly PG-10 movies can work sometimes.
I've always thought that Kirk's reputation as a "swashbuckler" in TOS was exaggerated, I saw him more often sitting in the chair and brood than taking risks. But in "ST: TMP" he was a rabid belligerent nutjob the whole first half-hour. If I'd make a cadet out of that guy, I'd make someone with piss and vinegar coming out the ears too. And again, this trailer is picking out four Kirk-highlights from a 2 hour movie.
Van, you're using the word "angst" a lot in conjunction with new Kirk. As far as I know, angsty kids of the Linkin Park-type are usually without influence, self-esteem or resolve in their family/school/tabernacle, they're whiny victims (like Gladiator-Commodus or Padawan Anakin). Generation Y-ME. I think the word you're looking for is "cocky", which would fit a young Kirk pretty well. Obviously the symbolic element of the motorbike is meant to make us think about Brando and James Dean, mavericks and all that, but it doesn't have to mean Kirk cuts his arms and dreams of kicking the school jocks' asses.
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: I think the whole "backlash" is fuled partly by the reboot (and it is, stop kidding yourselves by saying otherwise)
THANK YOU. I've been a lot happier thinking about the new movie since I started thinking of it as a remake. And I also feel a lot like Vanguard... sure, it's necessary to reinvent certain things. But reinventing it to be CRAP isn't a good idea. And it's not crap because it's not identical to the original show, it's because it looks like a soulless action flick.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
BUT WE DONT KNOW THAT FOR SURE! WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE. WE DON'T KNOW HOW EXACTLY IT WILL BE. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH A LITTLE OPTIMISM. AND IT WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST "ACTION" TREK FLICK. *cough*FirstContact*cough*
I shouldn't yell so much.
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I think that 'angst' describes at least YOUNG Kirk in the movie quite fairly. Certainly the voice-over describes an angsty, angry, rebellious youth. He's not 'emo', maybe, but he's the stereotypical 'rebel without a clue' needed something just to 'point him the way'.
Granted, I actually laughed at the mop the kid was wearing.. the scene was bad enough without that... thing... on the kid's head. Maybe Kirk's taste in faux hair improves over the years? It's CANON, dammit!
So this is yet another case of 'despite this being exactly what was said, they don't really mean it' in defense of the film. Eh, wha?
And, again, Nim, you're taking my comments and assigning them an extreme that I have not ever stated.
posted
"So this is yet another case of 'despite this being exactly what was said, they don't really mean it' in defense of the film."
You're not making any sense, sorry. And I didn't misquote you, I talked about the word "angst", which you're abusing.
Besides, I was under the impression that Kirk outranks Spock, so he's not being angsty, angry, nor rebellious. He's pushing Spock to get a reaction, just like he did several times in the show history, for some reason that is revealed in that scene.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
To all you younglings: I've been a fan since Star Trek first aired in the 1960s. From the very start there've been ups and downs and write-overs of previously established events and facts. You all should be used to this by now. Through it all Star Trek, like the Dude, abides.
I liked the trailer, and I'll see the new movie as soon as I can. Until then, I'm not going to get worked up about how this movie destroys Star Trek.
-------------------- When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Registered: Oct 1999
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