------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
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Sol: So you are suggesting that Zephram did make the first flight w/o using a matter/anti-matter reaction? This would mean the presumably nuclear-fueled (and probably not very effective) original reactor was quickly replaced by a M/AR warp core provided by the vulcans. It would also provide an explanation where humans got dilithium for their first warp-cores.
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AAAAAAAAH! People, there are three simultaneous arguments going on about "lithium-dilithium"/capabilities of Pheonix/pre-TOS tech stuff. It's driving me crazy! can't we consolidate somehow?
Okay. Lithium standing for dilithium IS really reaching. There is proof that they used LITHIUM crystals, not DILTHIUM crystals, in the early part of TOS. There's several entries under "Lithium Cracking Station" and "Lithuim (crystals)" in the encyclopedia.
It makes SENSE then that Zephram used an M/AM drive on the Pheonix, because lithium is a relatively abundant element found on Earth.
About the gravity well thing. If space works the way I think it works, then the ideal arrangement would be to place the gravity well at the center of a spherical hull arrangement. Everyone on the outer sphere would be pulled toward the well. It would work like a planet. The only problem is that you'd only be able to have about two or three decks before the gradient becomes noticeable. It's the same problem that plagues centripetal/centrifugal systems.
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But we know what lithium is, and it can't regulate M/A reactions. Therefore, the only logic conclusion is that "lithium", when they used it in early TOS, really meant "dilithium".
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
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The Encyclopedia refers to it as lithium in a crystal form similar to that of crystalline quartz. We have no idea what other elements they added to form that crystal. If there were any, it might substantially change the properties of the substance formed.
Basically, we have too little information on the subject, but it is a canon given that lithium in a crystalline structure was used to regulate M/AM reactions early on. If "lithium" was shorthand for something else, you'd think they would make that distinction in the encyclopedia. Even as an Okuda assumption.
Besides, if the formula is DIlithiumDIallosilicate-etc. don't you think they would have always called it "dilithium"?
It is more likely that the original compound held only a single atom of lithium, and an "improved" and naturally forming compound which held two lithium atoms was later discovered. I think Timo said something along these lines, and I refuted it. I apologize.
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited April 28, 2001).]
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Also, where would Cochrane get AM? I'd hardly believe that any particle accelerators survived WWIII and was continuously been maintained and ran by a group of die-hard scientists who produced AM for public consumption (maybe military applications).
But taking a closer look, if Cochrane did manage to caugh up SIF, IDF, bussard collectors, warp field coils.... AM was probably the easiest thing to get. Heck, we can make it now, after all.
And anyone have any idea as to just how much AM Cochrane would have needed for his flight?
------------------ "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
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That's a good point. I choose to believe that Cochrane didn't invent all of that stuff. Many of the supporting elements required for warp flight, such as SIF and inertial dampeners, could have already been developed by a pre WWIII space agency because they could also be used for conventional space flight.
"Basically, we have too little information on the subject, but it is a canon given that lithium in a crystalline structure was used to regulate M/AM reactions early on." Is it really--I didn't even think they said precisely what dilithium was used for in TOS.
"Besides, if the formula is DIlithiumDIallosilicate-etc. don't you think they would have always called it "dilithium"?"
Well people always use shorthand to refer to things--I was joking when I wrote it but I do think it does make more sense than using lithium for controlling a matter/antimatter reaction. Then again, if it was never stated what lithium was used for (the encyclopedia doesn't specify), who's to say it had anything to do with M/AR (or even the warp core). Maybe they needed the lithium for the starships auxiliary power (batteries) or some other realistic and important function on a starship.
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lithium cracking station: Mineral-processing facility used to produce lithium crystals, a critical element of early warp-drive technology. One such facility was the automated station on planet Delta Vega, visited by the Enterprise in 2265. ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" [TOS]).
lithium crystals: The lightest metal on the periodic table of elements, with an atomic number of 3 and an atomic weight of 6.941. Lithium in a form resembling crystalline quartz was a critical component of warp-drive systems in early starships. Lithium suitable for such use was an extremely rare and valuable commodity, requiring an energy-intensive "cracking" process. ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" [TOS]). Starships were rarely able to carry many spare crystals, meaning that damage or burnout of a ship's crystals was a serious problem. ("Mudd's Women" [TOS]).
Note at end of entry: Lithium crystals were used in the Enterprise's engines during the first few episodes of the Original Series. At the suggestion of scientific advisor Harvey Lynn, lithium was later changed to dilithium because lithium is a real element with known properties, while the imaginary dilithium could be endowed by Star Trek's writers with extraordinary qualities not yet known to science, making warp drive possible in the Star Trek universe.
Tell me again that the Encyclopedia doesn't specify their use in the warp-drive system. I assume it was used to regulate M/AM reactions because after dilithium was introduced, we never hear of this lithium compound again. If it were a "critical component" of the warp drive and did something besides regualte the M/AM reactions, then we would have seen it even after dilithium was introduced. I believe that this lithium in crystalline form was used before they discovered dilithium. After dilithium's discovery, they found it regulated M/AM reactions better than the lithium compound and used it instead.
Recarding the AM issue. Has anyone thought of the fact that maybe by this point in the Star Trek universe, they had invented a way to mass-produce antimatter? Manybe it was made in large quantities for the war in highly secure locations, and there were stores of antimatter held in magnetic containment. The systems would have to be maintained out of the fact that if they were not, the world would be blown to pieces. Cochrane could have dipped into this supply.
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Maybe WW3 was fought with anti-matter weapons?
------------------ "How do you define fool?" "I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination." - CJ Cherryh, Invader
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The Encyclopedia says that because the authors didn't bother to make something else up. The early episodes said "lithium", so the Okudas just took this to mean real lithium (since that had been the original intention). However, nothing onscreen suggests that the early term "lithium" and the later "dilithium" are different. In fact, they're used onscreen as though they're the same thing.
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
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Re: the possibility that WWIII was fought with antimatter weapons. I think this is unlikely since according to "Balance of Terror" the Earth-Romulan war more than 100 years later was fought with "primitive atomic weapons and with primitive space vessels." I think this also puts the newly "canon" antimatter tech in 2067 on shaky ground
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
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Maybe WW3 was fought with anti-matter weapons? --- Naw, the equipement required to contain anti-matter isn't something very compact and portable, I would think. And also a hiccup in the magnetic field and Boom, bye-bye. You get much more bang for your buck with good ol' thermal nuclear (it's pronounced "nuclear") weapons.
------------------ "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
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Spoiler S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S "Maybe WW3 was fought with anti-matter weapons? --- Naw, the equipement required to contain anti-matter isn't something very compact and portable, I would think. And also a hiccup in the magnetic field and Boom, bye-bye. You get much more bang for your buck with good ol' thermal nuclear (it's pronounced "nuclear") weapons."
In "Friendship One", there were several antimatter warheads in those missile silos - and those people didn't look like the technical type. I doubt if they had the aptitude for maintenance. If they had them, we might have them pre-WW3.
I really hate the "Gravity Well" term. What - we couldn't buy gravity generators from the Vulcans?
------------------ Faster than light - no left or right.
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