posted
The general assumption seems to be that if the prophets existed in the mirror universe, it would be the same prophets; because the are non-linear they also can coexist in alternate planes. I prefer a line of reasoning similar to Mucus- there might be alternative prophets who perhaps aren't so nice. This would explain why the Cardie/Klingon/Bajoran allaince was able to exploit it- any ship they sent through got fried. I do like the idea of a benevolent Dominion who could have stepped in and helped the rebels overthrough their oppressors. In fact I think something like this was needed. I assumed that at the end of TENC that the rebel had supposedly wone because they killed Worf. I don't really want to go into bashing that episode again but they really needed to provide the rebels with some type of advantage that could make them a plausable threat against their enemies (no not the Defiant).Unfortunately, the whole mirror universe storyline offered so many great possibilities that were ignored in favor of more shallow uncreative stories.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Andrew: I forgot to mention this in my post yesterday. I think the wings in the Alliance symbol are supposed to be just that: wings. And the circle at the bottom is merely the circle that has always been part of the Klingon symbol.
------------------ Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia." Holly: "What's a trace?" Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'." Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool." -Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
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I totally agree that the Mirror stories lost alot of opportunities and sorta got shallow. TENC was kinda cool but seemed more an excuse to use Quark, do something else stupid with Vic (what the hell was that about?), and get another mirror girl on girl thing going.
I've never read the Mirror books, but I prefer to think of the Mirror Universe as an alternate reality. Someone said up a couple of posts about the nature of things being twisted. I like that. I don't think there ever was a temporal connection (although I do think the same Prophets are there).
Also, the fact that the Mirror Bariel didn't know what a Vedek was in Resurrection, implies that the Mirror Bajor has no religious structure. The existance of the wormhole implies that the Prophets were trying to contact someone in that universe, but obviously, no one ever found anything.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Right now it seems there are two Mirror Universes. Mirror Universe 1 (MU1) was first seen in TOS "Mirror, Mirror" and continued as MU1a ("Dark Mirror") and MU1b ("Avenger" and "Spectre"); I make the distinction because I haven't read the former book in years so can't remember what it established as happened to MirrorKirk and MirrorSpock - I think I remember a mention of MSpock failing. Then the latter books have MKirk now as the Emperor Tiberius, but as I haven't read them I don't know if MSpock is mentioned.
But of course that's not canon, while Mirror Universe 2 as featured in DS9 has MSpock's reforms weakening the Empire so it is taken over by the Bajoran-Klingon-Cardassian alliance. Humans beings, instead of being thoroughly nasty pieces of work, are now downtrodden, and any nastiness exhibited by the alternate versions of people we've seen can be put down to their situation.
Give me MU1 any day. Heck, I'd love there to be a movie based on it, then Shatner might get his wish to be Kirk again. But the 2 Universes are now so differenet they can never be credibly integrated.
posted
I don't know, TSN -- I think Andrew might have something there. If you remove the Cardassian and Klingon symbols you can (well I can at any rate) just about discern the sides of the Bajoran crest -- not too sure about the circle at the bottom though.
I always thought it'd be cool if our Sisko travelled through the Mirror wormhole and met the Founders, who weren't a bit different from the warmongerers we all know and love. He'd then be offered to make a devilish pact with the Dominion in which they'd conquer the Alliance, thus freeing the Humans from them but subjugating them under the (admittedly) more benign hand of the Dominion. Sisko could then be faced with the Founders finding out where he comes from (the Dominion being aware of the existence of parallel worlds in theory, but not ours), perhaps imperiling his race even more.
Just a pipe dream that I had years ago, mind. The above analyses have shattered my childhood innocence and fastasies. *runs off sobbing, looking for his blankie*
------------------ "Fire, Fire!" said Mrs O'Dwyer. "Where, where?" said Mrs O'Hare. "Down in the town." said Mrs Brown. "Lord bless us and save us" said old Mrs Davis. "I never knew a herring was a fish."
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Lee: I haven't read those Shatner books recently enough to remember, either, but I was under the impression that they tried to keep as close to the TV/movie stuff as possible, including the mirror universe arc.
------------------ Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia." Holly: "What's a trace?" Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'." Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool." -Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
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IIRC, in Spectre the two Spocks managed to figure out what caused the two universes to diverge. But before Spock could tell Kirk, the mirror Picard showed up and attacked the mirror Voyager.
------------------ "I see you have the ring. And that your Schwartz is as big as mine! -Dark Helmet, Spaceballs
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Actually, from what I've been able to glean, the Mirror Federation started to diverge just after 2063.
Recognize that date?
Remember what time-spanning event occurred on that date?
Remember what darker power was involved?
It appears that the Empire was that Federation's response to discovering the Borg existed. I surmise that in that timeline, the E-E wasn't entirely successful in hiding the Borg's influence... which created its own miniuniverse.
ARRGH! Head hurts.. I HATE temporal paradoxes!
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
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But in the mirror universe there was no Enterprise-D for Q to send to the Delta Quadrant. Therefore the Borg never came to Earth, or went back to 2063.
In our universe then perhaps it was the Borg and Enterprise-E that caused the timeline to go as we know it.
Just a thought. If I go any deeper into the whole paradox thing I'll need to take an asprin and lay down.
------------------ Calvin: "I'm a man of few words." Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary." Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
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Just to make matters more complicated: There were Federation-Borg encounters before the Ent-D was flung away by Q.
------------------ Presenting the NX-59650. It can slice! It can dice! It can seperate into THREE parts!! Now available with THREE FULL warpcores! But wait! Buy now, and get a free number upgrade to NX-74913!
posted
I've still gotta go with the alternate reality theory. I don't think there ever was a temporal connection. I say this mainly because, if this was alternate timeline, the odds of any of the human crew of DS9 ever being born let alone being together are astronomical. If, however, the two universes are alternate realities tied loosely by similar events, structures, and people, it makes alot more sense.
It also allows for "connection points" where certain things would remain basically the same. The Vulcans and the planet in "Mirror, Mirror" for example.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Perhaps WWIII turned out a bit differently than in out Universe.
I read about a comic series called "The Mirror Universe Saga", and it gives an explanation to how a possible mirror universe came about.
In this series, both universes have the same timeline until the time of the Earth-Romulan War. In our universe, the war was fought in Deep Space and ended with the Feds winning at the Battle of Cheron. In this mirror universe, the war was instead fought in the Earth Solar System. Because of this, the Romulans captured Earth and held it in slavery for nearly a decade, until a resistance movement was able to overthrow their oppressors. Unfortunately, this resistance movement didn't disband when the overthrow was completed. Instead, the leader of the resistance became the leader of the new Earth Empire itself, with a very power hungry agenda. Their doctrine was suited to the people of a world that was previously conquered. Put it in a quote in the series "Never shall we be the conquered, from this day on, we shall be the conquerors!!!" And they became known as the power hungry Empire that they were in the Mirror universe.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
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Well, the theory that I've heard the most, and I like the most, is that Khan was never overthrown in the mirror universe. He wasn't stopped, ergo he started the whole expansionist movement. That would explain the whole Earth Empire right there.
------------------ "Waaawhooo! Lookie here ma, I caught me a lightnin' bug!" -Jetstorm
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Transcript of an ICQ conversation (my end only. If the other party wants to supply the in-between bits, he is free to do so):
Then why weren't there any enhanced humans? You'd think that Khan and his descendants would be leading the charge, rather than prodding from behind.
{Response: Still believes the "Khan won" theorie makes more sense.}
Maybe some other enhanced human(s) instead of Khan. I'm sure that there must've been one or two who would operate from behind the scenes, rather than from in front. All of Khan's followers seemed to be "man-of-action" types.
Perhaps if the Eugenics wars had been nipped in the bud by a master manipulator who had all the other enhanced humans "eliminated"? To protect him/herself from new rivals, the technology could still be outlawed, and that would be it. No eugenics wars, no Khan, but instead, an insidious, paranoid fantasy becomes real?
{Response: Bashir was enhanced. What about him?}
Well, in any case, he was produced outside official channels. Even in a universe filled with megalomaniacs, there will be some who want their children to be tougher than the rest, and willing to pay for the means to make it happen.
--Baloo
------------------ It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.
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