posted
The point I was trying to make is that there were much sillier-looking aliens than Andorians. In terms of believeability, all the ones who look just like humans. In terms of elaborate make-up, the Gorn. In terms of just plain silliness, the people from Cheron.
Basically, by comparison, the Andorians aren't all that silly.
capped
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I love the Andorians. They were one of TOS' least recognized good aliens (one of the few who werent humans-transplanted-by-Preservers)
I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-tradional (by TNG standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a forehead appliance.
When IS the last time we got to see someone with different color skin? or based of an animal? with fur? It got to its all time bad when late TNG and VGR aliens started to simply have rather fantastic ways of curling their hair (Kazons, etc.. there were way too many wigs and b.s. like that)
On the subject of the bird-ship problem, Humans today have many plane designs that are named after birds. Its probably a common theme on many worlds to call things that fly birds. It doesnt mean were going to call our starships birds, but we might.. or we might not for a while and then start doing just that, so maybe the klingons can, wil stop, and then start again when they buy some really bird-like ships
By the way, to pick up a thread from much earlier about TOS alien makeup, the Tellarites WERE redesigned (quite well too.. for The Voyage Home in the council chamber) and Nara in 'The Eye of the Beholder' looked nothing like any tellarite, she didnt have deep eyes or a porcine nose, her nose was bi-furcated into slits and the appliance continued about her face in a really non-Tellarite fashion. Simply put, Tellarite noses stick out far, and hers was designed to be flat on her face. A complete opposite when you think about it.
[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
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Beauregard the Purring Plant was pretty silly.. Andorians are quite cool, btw. It takes guts to introduce blue guys with antennae on their heads to a 21st century sci-fi show.
quote:Having the same ship design, the same bridge layout, the same technology, the same kind of stories as in the other series, but different planets and aliens of the week is what will really ruin continuity.
Same ship design: I am still of the opinion that NX-01 is a good compromise between continuity, fanboy-appeal and a new main ship for a new science-fiction series. And I also believe that it looks different enough.
Same bridge layout: What else? A bridge is a bridge is a bridge.. The center of storytelling. And BTW, I REALLY like the new sets. WOW! The atmosphere of this new ship is great!
Aliens and Planets of the Week: OK, but TOS and TNG also had aliens and ships of the week. Only VGR made some weird episodes, but that was mainly because the producers were very conservative on this series, and the Delta Quadrant was just simple a not-so-interesting place for us Trekkers. Who cares what the hell happens in the other half of the galaxy?
quote: I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-tradional (by TNG standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a forehead appliance.
Sure, they could do that, and blow most of the episode budget on make-up costs. You have to make some compromises somewhere. (But I don't have to like it, either.)
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quote:"Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon Designs"
I don't remember that. What's it from?
quote:Same ship design: I am still of the opinion that NX-01 is a good compromise between continuity, fanboy-appeal and a new main ship for a new science-fiction series. And I also believe that it looks different enough.
I won't argue that the Pre-E isn't cool looking. And it isn't so anachronistic (read that as TNGish if you don't believe its anachronistic) that it really ruins my appreciation of it. But I still was kind of looking forward to something completely different (probably because of early rumors that Eaves was working on some nacelless thing). Perhaps a ship barely recognizable as part of the same lineage as later Fed ships.
quote:I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-traditional (by TNG standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a forehead appliance.
Me too. Westmore sure loves them forehead ridges.
quote:Sure, they could do that, and blow most of the episode budget on make-up costs. You have to make some compromises somewhere.
I doubt that some nicely applied facepaint (ala Farscape) costs more than the little rubber prosthetics that they have to have molded for the ridge of the week. Of course really elaborate make up (more along the lines of detailed masks and such) look the best and are very expensive. But I am pretty sure that the same amount of money used for the "head bones" could be used to do something else interesting (and more importantly, a little different).
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
capped
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I dont think it would be too expensive to paint some dudes green or blue.. they did it every week for Data with gold paint.
I give westmore credit for trying a lot more 'ears and spots instead of foreheads' over the last few series. the ocampa and the trill both achieved good alien effect by a minor change in their appearance, but a major change in their being (i.e. living only 7 years or living with a symbiote)
kind of how spock only had the ears, but was alien to us because of his mind and behaviour. And they painted him yellow every week anyway.
The only thing i dont lik is the wig problem.. we should start a tally of aliens who were alien because they decided to wear their hair in a funny manner.
but these are the writer's problems, not creating interesting aliens, not westmore's for being able to take the script and it says (alien guy) and figure out a way to make him interesting. Maybe they should RE-USE an alien species instead of throwing it away. Nah.. to easy
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posted
Wow I never knew that they actually explained it in TOS (and "The Enterprise Incident" is my favorite original episode). I had always thought that the Romulan/Klingon sharing of technology was just everyone's conjecture to explain the fact that they used the exact same ship.
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
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The Romulans only used the D7 in that episode, as it was their last appearence (I don't think they actually appeared in The Way To Eden).
As to why, production wise, they used it, there are two theories.
1/ They'd jsut spent a lot of money building this Klingon ship, and wanted to show it off.
2/ Someone dropped the Romulan BOP model.
Both are probably true. But there is no indication of an alliance. Merely that Romulans were using Klingon looking ships. They could have stolen the design for all we know. And Klingon ships didn't start cloaking until "ST III", and THAT's because the BOP was going to be a Romulan ship originally.
The alliance/exchange of ideas is a fan-invented theory, that officially, is "most likely, and probably won't be contradicted", but isn't strictly cannon.
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capped
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Actually, i thought the passing of the Klingon/Romulan alliance was referenced in Next Generation episodes explaining why they hated each other so much.. ill have to go back and check.
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Yeah I seem to rember that too. But it could be another example of filling in the blank spots with conjecture.
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: I know that. It doesn't change the fact that it can be changed by the writers if they want. And, as all that's been said on screen is "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon Designs", it won't contradict anything.
Was that in reference to "The Enterprise Incident"? I haven't seen that episode in ages, but what *I* recall is that a Battlecruiser decloaks and Scotty blurts, "That's a KLINGON ship!" Was there some followup I've forgotten?
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Klingons have ships called 'Warbird' (ENT) Romulans have 'Birds of Prey' (Balance of Terror) The Alliance Klingons acquire a bunch of Birds of Prey. Romulans acquire Battlecruisers and some ships called Warbirds.
And that's how both empires used both these names in history.
posted
Or, as mentioned, those words are just English translations of the respective Klingon and Romulan words for the ships. Or maybe it's the Federation who has a thing about putting "bird" into designations for alien ships...
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