posted
Here's the article over at TrekWeb that lists some spoilers for "Dear Doctor." This is supposedly a "spy report" that doesn't mention the conclusion to the episode, so take this information with a few handfuls of salt.
Anyway, here's some basics about the episode. First, it's in a format similar to "Data's Day" in which the story is told through the personal correspondence of Doctor Phlox. In this episode, Elizabeth Cutler from "Strange New Worlds" makes another apperance and has a crush on Doctor Phlox. Archer and crew try to help a pre-warp civilization that is suffering from a plague that they can't seem to cure. These pre-warp aliens also put Archer in a tight spot by asking for warp technology. Archer has to decide whether to give them the technology or assume a position similar to the Vulcans in their dealing with Earth and refuse.
A couple of points brought up this "spy report." First, the aliens make a mention of having had Ferengis stop by recently. I have no idea what to make of this; my initial reaction is to hope that this part gets rewritten or written out in the final version. Another point brought up is that Doctor Phlox is revealed to be a Denobulan.
This sounds like it could be a pretty okay to pretty good episode. Other episodes done in this format include "Data's Day," "In the Pale Moonlight," and "Thirty Days." I personally liked all of those episodes. Some of the stuff rubs me the wrong way (such as the Ferengi reference and Cutler's crush on Phlox). It just seems to me that Enterprise is too close to Earth to be hearing a mention of the Ferengi. I suppose the romantic interests between Phlox and Cutler could be all right if the director and writer can get a good flow going with the characters.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
Well, the Ferengi are bound to be "out and about" ... just because we hear about them doesn't mean Archer & Co. meet them ... ("The Ferengi? Who the hell are the Ferengi?")
posted
Well, it would contradict the Ferengi's first few appearences on TNG. But, uh, I'm not at all sure that's a bad thing. As for earliest contact dates outside of TNG...we never really got any, that I recall.
This seems to be another issue where the producers can't win. Create new aliens and fans ask where they went. Bring in old ones and fans ask why they're here already.
Anyway, I wouldn't have any real problem with the Ferengi being around somewhere. I'd like to see some Trill, while we're at it.
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posted
Well, i believe it was established that, before 'The Last Outpost' no Ferengi had been seen by humans. Could be wrong, that was my impressions. The Ferengi had certainly never seen the humans (surprised by clothed females, etc..).
Not enough was known about them for Picard to even establish that the Ferengi had assaulted the Stargazer.. he didnt even know who had attacked him until the Ferengi told him nine years later in 'The Battle'
But the Federation *knew* about them.. they were mentioned as early as 'Encounter at Farpoint'
I could imagine that, over the years, the Federation was constantly running into people who said 'Oh yeah, the Ferengi were just here, but you missed them' and then he Federation is like 'Oh those guys.. maybe we'll meet them...' *looking into the camera* '....someday!' *music swells* But even better would be for humans to only hear a couple references to the Ferengi, so that even by 2355 they will be able to say 'well, weve heard of them four times but damned if we know who they are!'
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
posted
Indeed, Deep Space Nine strongly implied that the Ferengi have been involved in the galactic millieu for some time previous to TNG. The Ferengi invention of synthehol being the most obvious example. Generations implies that Geordi knew at least a few cursory facts about the Ferengi during the Farpoint mission, and "Encounter at Farpoint" itself mentions them, eliciting recognition from Picard. So there's little doubt that the Ferengi were known of long before "The Last Outpost."
Is this a big issue? Well, Europeans knew of fantastic lands called China and India for centuries before they actually saw them. So I'm leaning towards "not," but what do I know?
A detail Sieggy missed: the spoilers make it pretty clear that Ferengi are really spanking new as T'Pol makes a comment about the Vulcans never having even heard of them.
[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Yes, but almost everything from "The Last Outpost" was contradicted in DS9. This is generally regarded as a Good Thing.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The Federation knew about the Ferengi for a good deal of time before Encounter at Farpoint -- they seemed to know rough information (a race of traders), and also their general territorial bounderies. First contact between official emissarys of the Federation (namely, Picard & Co.) didn't occur until The Last Outpost, although it was later implied that the Ferengi had had (I'm assuming, "third party") contact with the Federation beforehand.
To be honest, though, TNG itself altered the Ferengi more then DS9 did -- at first they were shown to be very militaristic, and then their economic background was showcased and the military aspect of their culture was abandoned.
The Cardassians apparently knew about the Ferengi for a long, long, long time before Federation contact -- perhaps the Federation learned of Ferengi business interests during the Cardassian Wars from Bajoran militia members?
One other thing -- the Federation had no specific data on the Ferengi. Data commented that they were roughly as advanced as the Federation, in that the Ferengi were more advanced in some fields, and less in others.
posted
By the way, working off a 6-day week, an 8-day shoot per episode, and a shooting start of "Favorite Son" either on Sept 24 or 25, "Dear Doctor" is most likely episode 12 and will wrap at the end of this week.
We also should expect a formal announcement of an extended pickup from UPN beyond the initial 13-episode commitment in the next few days, as they've basically gotta get the money lined up for episode 14 by the time episode 13's on the soundstages.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
posted
Count me in as approving of the Ferengi reference. The TNG heroes knew far too much of them in "The Last Outpost" for that to be the first real contact between the races. I'd say the Ferengi knew perfectly well what human *males* looked like at that point. They had only been fooled earlier by the fact that the TOS movie-era uniforms didn't reveal QUITE so clearly that there were females underneath some of them... (And perhaps size DD cups are not the norm even in the 24th century, but simply a Starfleet entry requirement?)
Also, the Ferengi have been characterized as moving slowly and cautiously ("Little Green Men"), yet they admit they have soiled their reputation pretty much across the entire known Alpha quadrant ("The Nagus"). So it would make sense for them to have had an early start!
Oh, and Denebola is of course a real star quite close to Earth. Apart from minor spelling differences, this sounds promising as the Doctor's hometown.
Curious that an interstellar pre-warp ship could be characterized as a "shuttle"... It wouldn't be able to shuttle between two points, really. And at this point, Earth would be in no position to consider all small craft as "shuttles", since it would probably still have numerous non-shuttle small craft of its own.
posted
Thanks for the posts, y'all. I'm not really all that familiar with all of the backstory for the Ferengis. What I do remember is from "The Last Outpost" and the Stargazer episode of TNG. So it would appear that **places tongue firmly in cheek** I was allowing a line or two of insignicant dialogue completely turn off to the possibility of alternatives.
Obviously, latter TNG episodes and DS9 changed a lot of the references and such for the Ferengi backstory. Reading all of this (as well as Tom pointing out something I must have missed while speed-reading) makes me feel much better about a throw-away reference to the Ferengi.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
It's been a while since I last saw "The Battle," but if I remember correctly Picard's description of those events was a bit on the vague side. He said he had encountered an unknown vessel and attempted to make first contact with it. The unknown vessel opened fire on the Stargazer.
I would surmise that Daimon Bok's son either captured another species' vessel (since some Ferengi seem to do that per "Rascals") or it was a type of standard Ferengi ship that Starfleet had no record of. Unless they did an in-depth scan, they might not had realized that it was a Ferengi crew onboard.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
Starfleet didn't realize Picard had encountered the Ferengi until they presented him the Stargazer and informed him that it *was* a Ferengi ship he had destroyed.
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