posted
Remember "Trials and Tribble-ations", where the temporal cop corrected his compatriot in that there were, in fact, six Enterprises? Now, that line has usually been interpreted to mean that he knew about the E-E, but what if he was a history buff and knew about the pre-E? Or even had gone over some older time-travel records?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
If he already knew about the NX Enterprise and intended to include it in his correction, he would have said SEVEN instead of SIX as he would still need to include the E-E. And then if he included that "Declaration class" starliner, he would have said EIGHT, and then if he wanted to include the space shuttle, he would have said NINE.
And this is assumming you're saying he said SIX because he knew of the NX Enterprise and you're counting 1701 through 1701-D and not including -E, which would be odd since we all know it exists at that time.
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
While it's possible, I doubt that its probable. The destruction of the Federation flagship had to have been big news, so I'd bet that the story would be followed through the investigations into the Enterprise-D's death up to the launch and commissioning of the Enterprise-E. In other words, I think it would have been a big news story that everyone would know about.
Also, I can't remember for certain, but I want to say that the scene was set up in that it was implied that the three of them were strictly talking about Federation Starfleet ships named Enterprise. But I'm not sure about that.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Ferg
Ex-Member
posted
Well, we could say that since the E-E had just been launched, the Time cops probably knew it couldn't have been that one Sisko was talking about? Of course the REAL reason was that this this episode was made before the Pre-E was thought up but still it's fun to make excuses!
IP: Logged
posted
Well, "Trials and Tribble-ations" is the sixth episode of season 5; best guesses place First Contact as being set roughly mid-season, right? So that gives us three options:
1. Second TBI Guy corrects First TBI Guy because TBI1 has missed or forgotten the announcement of the commissioning/launching of the E-E.
2. TBI2 reminds TBI1 of the often-forgotten NX-E, and doesn't count the E-E because it hadn't been launched yet/had only just been launched, and Sisko had already made clear in his initial report that he went back in time, giving him six Enterprises to choose from but not a seventh given it is effectively in the future.
3. "Enterprise" wasn't even a gleam in Rick Berman's eye back then and the dialogue was a blatant plug for the upcoming film, due to be released a couple of weeks after this episode.
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
I'm glad we settled this one, guys. This thread has been a roller coaster ride of theories, corroboration of real-life producers intentions, and conflicting viewpoints made whole. The issues discussed were controversial, and at times nearly explosive. good work paring the facts down to the truth contained within.. There were times, during the middle, when I thought no conclusion could be reached. We must continue to focus, however, as our attentiveness to other matters as severe as this, or more severe than this is the price we pay for holding up the torch of the highest caliber of fandom.
Ooh look!! A dog with a puffy tail!
[ June 13, 2002, 19:56: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, the E-E could still be included even if "Trials and Tribble-ations" took place before FC as Geordi mentions that she had been out for nearly a year at the time of FC. That means there's still around half a year that Sisko could go back in time and visit the early months of the E-E
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
they said six enterprises. they meant the 1701, the 1701-A, the 1701-B, the 1701-C, the 1701-D, and when he corrected him, meaning the recently built 1701-E. this was a plug/reference for the upcoming film. the reason NX-01 may not have been included is because it wasnt a Federation starship.. presumably when Sisko was telling the story, he told them exactly what they said on the bridge of his ship.. 'i'm detecting a Federation starship' or somesuch, thereby removing the NX-01, the SS Enterprise XCV-330, the WWI motorboat Enterprise and the HMS Enterprize from consideration.
why are we making this more complicated?
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
But we entered the original discussion more or less in mid-sentence. We have no idea how thoroughly Sisko was prepped by the agents, or vice versa, before the point of "you are number six" came up. The subject could have been narrowed down to UFP Starfleet ships already.
Or perhaps they were actually talking about how many examples of NCC-1701 (no bloody suffix) had existed throughout multiple timeline revisions? Sisko would say "And so our crew went back to James T. Kirk's Enterprise, NCC-1701", to which Dulmur and Lucsly: "Which of them? There have been five..." "No, six!" "... of them." Sisko: "Huh? How can there be six of one ship?" "Never mind. Forget we said that. It was just a weather balloon reflecting Venus onto interstellar gas anyway. In fact, I'd like you to watch this red light very carefully..."
quote:Originally posted by TSN: According to the script, we don't hear Sisko telling that part of the story. We see the flashback of it happening. Then we come back to:
DULMUR Be specific, Captain. Which Enterprise? There've been five. LUCSLY Six. SISKO This was the first Enterprise. Constitution class.
So, just before this, Sisko could have said something like "it was the USS Enterprise". That "USS" would have limited the choices to six.
It's Dulmer, not Dulmur. Both the agents' names are anagrams of the infamous duo from the X-Files, Mulder and Scully.
[ June 14, 2002, 03:59: Message edited by: Eclipse ]
Registered: Dec 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, Sisko saying "the first one" seems to imply that either he thought that the "six" bit meant the E-E, or that he thought the comment insufficiently confusing to ask about. Oh, well.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
