posted
I suppose I should probably moderate my sentiments, but honestly, everyone in Hollywood hates Germans, and they do this because the media is controlled by Jews? This is, as we say in my neck of the woods, crazy. Maybe even Crazy Go Nuts, I'm not sure. But come on.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I guess Lex Luthor sort of fits that mold, since he's bald and stuff. But why would a German hate the Superman? I'm confused.
Registered: Jan 2001
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First, it wasn't me who said that everyone in Hollywood hates Germans. That was a quote of Bernd's remark, remember?
Second, I didn't say that the media was controlled by Jews. I just stated my observation of the fact that a great number of those people who are responsible for making movies in Hollywood are Jews. Studio execs, producers, directors, writers... I have nothing against that fact and I don't want to imply that this is the reason for the anti-german attitude in American films. I just wanted to offer one possible contributing element - though it might indeed seem quite a bit far-fetched.
But I agree with Bernd in that there is a great deal of anti-german, anti-russian and anti-arab sentiments to be found in many films, from small ones right up to Hollywood blockbusters.
Third, many Americans - and not just uneducated ones unfortunately - have almost no knowledge of the world outside the U.S. A story to prove it? My colleague at work has lived in the U.S. for several years. She worked for an IT company and while there, asked some co-workers if they wanted to come visit her after her return to Germany. They said that they wouldn't really want to come as, and that is their original quote, "yes, the scenery is quite nice, but we are a bit uneasy about all those concentration camps" !!!
Come on, these were no idiots, they were professionals of a big IT company (HP as a matter of fact!). There are statistics to prove that this isn't just some one-time exceptionary example, but a very common phenomenon in the U.S.: a fundamental lack of knowledge of facts about the rest of the world.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote: They said that they wouldn't really want to come as, and that is their original quote, "yes, the scenery is quite nice, but we are a bit uneasy about all those concentration camps" !!!
Next as to the subject. The main cause for American unconcern with the rest of the world is the original isolationist attitude of the country. It wasn't until the turn of the century [last century] that the US actually started to have a place on the world scene. Today much of it remains, although the government and large corporations are extremely involved in other countries.
Now the reason that American media is hard on Russians is obvious. A fifty year cold-war isn't going to make a lot of positive movies about your advisary. You'd all be saying the same thing about Russia if 1) Their society created as many movies as the US. 2) If their movies were as popular as the ones from the US. Neither of which is true of course. Russia was just as hard on the US in their movies, if not worse in some cases, as the US-- and the same can be said in reverse.
Germans. It has nothing to do with Jews. In fact the claims of hating Germans seems a rash inflated to me. Most of the movies with Germans in them are WWII movies, are they not? Most of the movies that remain are those with a plot traced back to WWII [either in the real-time line or an alternate one]. --- What remains? I bunch of B-movies and that stupid episode of Seinfield with the Soup-Nazi?
Arabs. If I have to explain this one I think I'll be highly confused. Yeah, maybe it's propaganda... but it's been a near image of real life for the past three decades. Americans haven't been enthuzed with Arabs since the Iranian Students took hostages [now my memory is failing me at the moment, were their two incidents, one with IBM employees and another with the embassy staff--- or did that happen at the same time?]. But the fact that Arabs would prefer us all dead doesn't help either [blanket statement I know, but most of the Arab population has voiced this opinion]. The final nail is when Americans look at Israel, a country which was formed by an agreement in 1948 and has been under attack by it's Arab neighbors ever since. Israelies are Jews, yes, but that's no excuse for living in fear from all sides or from your next door neighbor who happens to be a Palistinian.
This is a Star Trek forum... and we're getting back into a discussion that need not be. Star Trek is an American show... who cares if Gene Roddenberry put together a multi-ethnic TOS senior crew--- look at the background folks. What was their predominate majority? Star Trek isn't about inclusiveness above all else--- that's a form of discrimination in itself because you look for people who are different. Star Trek is about the fact that people are different, and no one cares if you're black or white or arab, or from America or Europe or Africa or Asia, or if your Jewish or Muslim or Christian or Athiestic. You guys are looking for those people because you see their difference and care if they are there or not. I'm not looking for those people because I see their difference and don't care if they are there or not.
That's the truth of the matter... but whenever it's said a whole lot of somebodies get their panties in a wad. Like it's been said on shows besides Star Trek "The very young rarely understand." B5 and SG have it down pretty well on those notes... so concerning reality and ST this is my advice:
GROW UP!
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
@Cartmann: LOL, that pic is just so true!!! Great!
@J: You're right of course. But to return to Star Trek - the main reason GR included all those different characters in TOS was to show that in the future, racial, ethnic or other differences wouldn't matter anymore. To accomplish that goal he had to show a variety of different people working in important positions on the Enterprise. Of course he couldn't include all minorities, but instead settled for those who seemed most controversial at the time: Russian, Asian, female African American.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Well, the funny thing IMO is that both sides are right with respect to "Star Trek" -- yes, inclusiveness can be considered a form of discrimination because one seeks out those who are different and parades them as "See how nice we are?!" -- but TOS also needed to have a wide variety of non-American nationalities in order to get its point across. (Although Sulu, despite being Asian, was born in America, right?)
Anyway, I think that at this point Trek should theoretically have evolved past the point of needing to specifically seek out people who are different to include in the main cast. However, the fact remains that Trek is still a TELEVISION PRODUCTION BUSINESS, and not a philosophy think-tank, and therefore the producers must deal with reality with regard to potential actors and actresses in the Hollywood area (and beyond, to a certain extent).
For example, it's my understanding that many Muslims (especially women) do not fully support television as an entertainment medium, or at least acting for television. (I admit I don't understand the underlying beliefs that well.) Anyway, the fact remains that few Muslim/Arab men or women are especially eager to become actors in LA (or anywhere else) -- and therefore, that's an entire culture that is nearly ignored as far as direct portrayal in shows like Trek.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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