posted
I know of a couple of instances where Trek has plagir... er, borrowed, lines and scenes from literature. For example many of Khan's lines were taken from "Moby Dick", and much of "Chain of Command Part II" was is copied from 1984. Are there other instances of the writers doing this? And do you think this is harmless paying homage, or blatant plagirism?
------------------ Canadians look down on the United States and consider it Hell. They are right to do so. Canada is to the United States what, in Dante's scheme, Limbo is to Hell. -Layton
posted
I can't say I remember much from "Chain of Commant, II" but what you are referring to with Khan is allusional quotations. Writers use these to show parallels between two literary works' themes. It's not done maliciously (though it kind of hitches onto another's success), but it provides a ready-made method of deepening thematic depth to shows that are so short on time already (as opposed to novels which relatively unlimited space to reinvent the wheel they describe by allusion in a show).
Do I think it is wrong? No, within reason. It's something writers have done since storytelling began. It allows an author to thematically progress further then the alluded-to author was able to in his or her own work. Allusions are a mark of attempted progress, not a simple money-making scheme. The line is crossed to plagiarism when the previous work is reproduced with no credit given to the previous author as a method of making profit off another's work. That's not what Star Trek has done; it is simply revisiting old themes and using prior work as a basis for literary development.
------------------ "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
posted
You know, there ARE a lot of people who just like to quote things.
Khan was a well-read superman. Just as Picard is well-read now. They know what to say for the appropriate occasion.
Personally, as an English major and creative writer, the more literary allusions I find in a work, the more interesting. Especially if they're obscure.
I'm reading a comic entitled "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" set in late 19th Century London.
Main Characters: Wilhemina Murray (nee Harker) Alan Quatermain Captain Nemo Dr. Stephen Jeckyl / Henry Hyde And the Invisible Man (whose character name I forget)
and there have been appearances by Auguste Dupin Campion Bond Pollyanna and the mysterious "Mr. M" whom Bond works for, and whom Ms. Harker suspects is Mycroft Holmes. (Hmm, a man named Bond working for a man called "M"...) as well as others and other things too numerous to recall, but including: (gunfire-like explosions on Mars) (Cavorite) etc...
fascinating
------------------ You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!
[This message was edited by First of Two on May 20, 1999.]
posted
I think there is a very fine line between Homage and plagiarism. "Wrath of Kahn" was homage and good writing, "Chain of Command II" was plagiarism. "Our Man Bashir" was plagiarism. ST was sued over that one. The only reference after that episode was Bashir ordering a Martini "sturred, not shaken" a nice comeback to the law suit. (I started reading 1984, but the book was lost in the shuffle when I moved, and I was getting into it.)
posted
I think you need to rethink your definition of plagerism.
------------------ "You can't catch me where I'm gonna fall. You can't catch me where I'll hide. This world's too cold, this Nova rolls. I'm moving to the sun." -- They Might Be Giants
posted
The headline is not "borrowed quotes" but "borrowed plots", and I don't remember any in Star Trek. Only the four lights plot in "Chain of Command" belongs in this category, but it was too blatant to be called plagiarism, it was rather a homage to "1984". The writer could have taken three lights as well to veil his intention.
------------------ "No, thanks. I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp." (Janeway, asked if she would like some coffee in "Once upon a Time") www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
I agree that they borrow lines but they don't plagiarise. Remember ST6:TUC? General Chang was quoting Shakespeare until he was almost blue in the face. Is that plagiarism? I don't think so.
------------------ The public has spoken. Common sense has prevailed. We have been returned what was wrongly taken away from us. All hail COCO POPS!!
posted
He was also paraphrasing the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. during the Cuban Missle Crisis.
"Don't wait for the translation! Answer me now!"
------------------ "Should have changed that stupid lock. Should have thrown away the key. No no, not I, I will survive, right down here on my knees." -- They Might Be Giants
posted
ST VI was as strange one... The bit where Spock claims Holmes as an ancestor. The 'original Klingon' line. What were the writers on?
COC part 2 was about a man striving to remain sane in the face of torture. 1984 does not own the copyright on torture things. There is a similarity in what Smith wrote in his diary 'Freedom is the right to say that 2+2=4'. I don't remember the finger thing though.
And Amnesty Internation advised on the torture stuff. I don't think they got their info from 1984 did they?
------------------ 'His limbs flail about as if independent from his body!' -Chandler Bing on Michael Flatley.
How do we know that Holmes isn't an ancestor of Spock? All we know is that Spock's mother Amanda is human and NOTHING else about that side of his family.
BTW, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I'M OUT OF SCHOOL FOR THE SUMMER AND CAN COME IN HERE AND SCARE PEOPLE AGAIN!!!
------------------ Brandon "Enterprise" Grasmick Commanding Officer, USS Sovereign (NX-74222)
"Captain, the Sona crew are willing to negotiate a cease fire. It may have something to do with the fact that we have 3 minutes of air left." -- Worf
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges -- In time of war the law falls silent.
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