posted
I always thought we were the last of the alpha/beta quad powers to get warp. Could someone post a chronological list of all the a/b-big ones and their starting to warp?
------------------ So, how's that Survivor-contest coming along, Newt? -Well not very well at the MOMENT, everyone seems to have died. -Gee, that's bad. Those Aliens bugging you yet? -Not really, they mostly come at night mostly...
posted
The Vulcans had Warp capability before we had, or else they couldn't get to Earth (First Contact).
The Ferengi did not have Warp capability in the Earth year 1947 (DS9: 'Little Green Men').
The Bajorans did not have Warp capability when the Federation first met them (At least one TNG episode, Bajorans were called Bajora). That is, if you don't count the sail ship(s?).
I thought the Cardasian Union was (much?) older than the Federation, don't know for sure though.
------------------ Buffy: "See, this is a school. And we have students and they check out books and then they learn things." Giles: "I was beginning to suspect that was a myth." - Buffy: The Vampire Slayer
posted
Christ...people, click and drag over the word "Cardassianx" in Nimrod's original post: in my browser (Navigator) the "x" changes into different letters!!
------------------ Remember December '59 The howling wind and the driving rain, Remember the gallant men who drowned On the lifeboat, Mona was her name.
posted
Exactly. Their solar sailers (sailer - see below) probably got caught in the tachyon eddies in the Denorious Belt quite by accident, and we've only ever heard of the ONE ship making it to Cardassia. Now, I'm not saying that there was only one (ancient) ship that went to warp-like speeds, but doesn't it seem odd that the only two solar sailers that we know off (Sisko's and the original that the Les Cardassiables found) ended up in the same place?
My point is that I feel that Na Cardassacanach (arrogant s.o.b.s that they are) would have made other crashes known to Sisko - I mean, if there were other crash landings, Da Cardeez would know of them (planetary scanning capabilities and all).
After all, they really had no need to inform Sisko of the Bajorans' feat at the end of 'Explorers'. If they were willing to admit to one landing, then a few more would hardly have mattered.
FINALLY (on this point, at least ), the Bajorans would have no real way to get back to Bajor, presuming that they survived the initial crash. Therefore, their leaders would have had no way to know about the effect of the tachyon eddies on the sailers (they'd asssume the crew got lost in space) and would be in no position to exploit the eddies.
Therefore, the Bajorans did not come into contact with warp drive (as we know it) until the Cardassians invaded, sometime around 2300(?).
SO...who does that leave in the Order Of Relativistic Velocity?
The Breen were able to wipe out a Klingon battle fleet yonks ago - never specified whether or not it was thier ground forces which got hammered or their fleet was routed en route, but my money's on the latter. Therefore, I believe that the Breen had warp capability at the same time as the Klingons. As to which came first, well...
Much has been made of the Romulans leaving Vulcan, and whether or not they did so with warp drive or without. It's all been said, but *I* think that they did so without it, heading off to Romulus on sleeper or generation ships. After all, the Vulcans have MARA drives, like Cochrane's. The Romulans' confined quantum singularity seems to work just fine for them. Thus the two technologies were developed quite seperately from each other - the Vulcans never had singularity propulsion, as seen from the fact that they don't have it now, whereas the Romulans never had MARA, but invented the singularity idea on thier own. If there was any flaw in it's design, surely we would have seen new ships emerging from beyond the Neutral Zone by now *drools at the prospect of new Romulan ships* *ahem* And as we all know, the Romulans didn't have warp capabilities until after 'Balance of Terror', after which they acquired it off the Klingons.
Now the Cardassians. They're a bit of an enigma. I think that they would have developed warp near the end of the Hebitians reign - a civilization that enlightened would certainly look into the possibilities of FTL technologies. Problem is, their push towards warp ate away at their planet's resources. They then had to focus their attention towards exploiting other systems (their own presumably being raped for minerals already) and turned towards local unoccupied systems. However, desperation (plus the rise of a militanttt elementt into governmentttt) meantt that they soon looked in the direction of the sparsely-industrialized, non-warp Bajorans, knowing that a pre-warp civilization would offer little by way of fleet-whacking power. Little did they realize the resilience and determination the Bajoran people were prepared show in order to free their homeworld. Their decades of effort and sacrifice were rewarded, but before the Cardassians withdrew (ending what had become known as "The Occupation"), the Bajorans acquired warp power off the Cardassians before they left.
Sensing the Bajorans readiness to use this technology to conduct more off-world raids (like the one mentioned in 'Shakar' - the only one), and knowing that a terrorist attack on Cardassia Prime would evaporate support for the military, coupled with the fact that Bajor was practically ruined anyway, the Cardassians withdrew. I surmise, therefore, that the Balorans have not had warp for more than ten years.
The Ferengi purchased the tech off the Breen - now that can't have been too long ago, seeing as First Contact between them and the Fed occured 15 or so years ago.
I think that the only real mystery is when the Klingons developed warp.
Did they beat it out of the Hur'q? Unlikely, seeing as they seem to have "left" Qu'on'os in much the same way sa the Cardassians laft bajor i.e. because it suited them, they'd had their fun.
Did they steal it off the Vulcans? Hardly, they'd have to get to either Vulcan or a ship of theirs first. And I can't see the Vulcans revealing themselves to the warlike knob-ends that the Klingons are (and, most likely, were).
Did they buy it off someone? Fine. Who?
Did the entire space-folding mechanism of subspace fields and general relativity come to a priest on Borath or Qu'on'os in a hazy vision?
It's where my money is!
------------------ Remember December '59 The howling wind and the driving rain, Remember the gallant men who drowned On the lifeboat, Mona was her name.
[This message has been edited by Gaseous Anomaly (edited November 11, 2000).]
posted
Now that's good shit up there, G.A. You kept all'at bottled up inside you? Shie', I'm glad I started this thread!
No really, this demands some sweet pondering!
---1--- Is it really (REALLY) confirmed that the romulans were totally warp-unable until after "Balance Of Terror"? Couldn't it just have been that the fresh, volatile design that was the original "BoP" had to sacrifice warp-drive in order to get all the other gathered tactical systems running peachy?
I mean, Spock's demonstration with the piece of "hardest material in the book" shows that the plasma-cannon probably was one helluva drainer... And an experimental cloaking-device??? Shie', that's gotta suck'em dry! Might encourage some tinkering...
And if they developed singularity-drives later anyway, why switch? If the new drive WAS better, why didn't anyone else switch?
Well I'll tell you what, I'll join thee in the ship-emerging-droolage.
---2--- *shuffles papers in orderly fashion* On to the next item on our agenda... Who were the Hebitians? (*BartSimpsonTalk* Yeah, who WERE the Hebitians?)
I'll just fire all my guns now as I don't want to bother starting any fruitfly-threads right now...
---3--- Was the famous multi-barreled "Vulcan-Cannon" invented before or after Roddenberry's Vulcans were?
---4--- Is it true Klingons lack tear ducts and if so, is it considered a slipup when Ezri joked about "spotting a tear in Worf's eye" after some event in DS9?
---5--- What is the most accepted spelling of the words 'shit' and 'allright' whilst applying a lucious jive-accent? (just threw that one in for flavour)
------------------ And keep your foot off that blasted samoflanche!
posted
I reckon that even if the Bajoran sailing ships were just a one off, they would have eventually developed warp ships. Picard said that the Bajorans had large cities when we were just learning to walk upright - or something like that. I believe they might have had warp drive well before the Cardies invaded them but I think that they wouldn't have had 'war ships' to stop the Cardassian onslaught.
ALSO remember the poet that came forward in time through the wormhole in "Accession" [DS9] he had his own little sailing vessel...
Also reguarding the Klingon warp theory. The Hurq might have left ships on Q'Onos or the Klingons might have stolen/copied the designs/reverse engineered their own ships etc. etc.
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited November 11, 2000).]
2063 to 2260 Klingons develop, seize in combat, or trade for information on warp drive.
2260 to 2377 Ferengi buy warp drive. Romulan Star Empire obtains warp drive from Klingons as part of trade. Romulan Star Empire designs a new kind of warp drive engine. (Dilithium may be scarce in their empire.)
Breen and Cardassians are unknown. Bajor is a minor planet in the galaxy. She is not a major power.
), the Bajorans would have no real way to get back to Bajor, presuming that they survived the initial crash. Therefore, their leaders would have had no way to know about the effect of the tachyon eddies on the sailers (they'd asssume the crew got lost in space) and would be in no position to exploit the eddies. 
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