posted
Here's a little question: On more than one occastion, we've seen medical officers in Starfleet fire weapons, and even kill people. I'm wondering if the same thing applies in today's military. Do medical officers carry weapons?
We know that the Hippocratic Oath is still in effect in Starfleet, yet Bashir has killed Klingons and fought The Circle. Is the HO suspended for military personel when defending their ship or outpost or the lives of other officers?
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
I would suppose that in situations where you are facing an unknown, or even known possibly hostile situation, that you would arm even (or espically) your medical personnel, in the case that they may have to defend themselves or their patients.
If you are in war, you would probably have a weapons locker in your medical tents, just in case. Although most enemies would pass over the medical personnel for UN reasons, you would like your med team to be protected anyway.
------------------ I looked at my son, and said, "My god, he's hung like a bear." "That's the umbillical cord, Mr. Williams."
posted
An interesting question indeed. I don't know about the real world practices, but I do believe an oath to preserve life has been mentioned by at least the EMH and possibly by the live doctors as well. Let's see if I can dig up the references.
Of course, one episode was explicitly named "Hippocratic Oath" and the Pasteur's dedication plaque quoted that oath, but the heroes don't get to read the episode titles, and the plaque reference could be a historical, outdated one.
Also, Trek doctors get to deal with a creat variety of life, a lot of which is hell-bent on extinguishing the human type of life. There might be far greater ethical dilemmas here than a modern doctor's moral hangover for murdering lots and lots of bacteria or virii to save one human life (or just to make that one life more comfortable).
posted
I know that in some circumstances in Washington, D.C., EMTs in "drug-areas" actually carry a handgun in the ambulance. The reasoning is that if a druggie has tried to kill another druggie, he might try again and injure/kill the EMTs, so one stands guard while the other works on the hurt guy.
Granted, this was told to me by a somewhat unreliable source -- he was an EMT, but he was prone to exaggeration. So ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
Medics are issued sidearms in the Army, these are to be used for self defense and patient defense only, the theory is that red cross on your arm is supposed to protect you, and the Geneva Convention protects the wounded.
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them....
Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
Which, unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't. Besides the medics in Starfleet don't have the Red Cross on their arms, and half of the aliens wouldn't know what the red cross stands for anyway.
The Hippocratic Oath still stands, but if someone is threatening your life, or your patient's life, then self defense would not violate that oath.
------------------ I looked at my son, and said, "My god, he's hung like a bear." "That's the umbillical cord, Mr. Williams."
posted
It would be nice, though, to see medical personnel who have taken lives in self-defense to be shown to have a crisis of faith about it later. The only doctor who has shown this type of mixed emotion was the Doctor.
posted
One can carry "defensive" weapons per the Geneva Conventions (and other treaties) to defend ourselves and our patients (I'm a Naval medical type myself). The definition of a "defensive" weapon varies - typically a side arm or shotgun and is linked to a the above-mentioned armband.
IMHO I think you'd find that most military medical personnel have alreay resolved this conflict prior to going to the "field". While Bashir or Crusher may very well feel badly for having to injure or kill someone in the line of duty, it would be out of character for that to disrupt their dedication to duty much (maybe an episode, which I think we saw with Bashir). After all they are committed career military/paramilitary officers as well as health care workers.
As for Star Fleet policy - I would imagine they would stick to the "defensive-only" policy for medical folks, but once again defensive is going to mean something different when dealing with the Borg for example.
As for the EMH - if I were programming it I would prohibit offensive actions and limit defensive ones - it is just a computer program after all.
posted
The Doctor only a program??? He's evolved to far more than that, although it does still stand he can be altered. I'd assume all military/paramilitary people would have at least a defenseive weapon on hand, especially in combat situations regardless of where or when.
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I'm thinking specifically of the ep where the Klingons invaded the station and Bashir takes out a Klingon from across the promenade who is about to attack Odo. Definately not "self" defense, but he is defending the life of another officer.
In that same ep, Odo says, "Don't count on that Blue uniform to protect you." Suggesting that the blue uni's serve the same function as a red cross does today.
I agree though, that medical personel in SF probably resolve the issue of whether or not they are willing to take a life before they ever go into combat. It's probably not something they have to decide there on the spot.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
It would be a bit strange for Starfleet to convert to the current uniform style if the identification of blue department color was critical on the battlefield...
Or perhaps field medics in dirtbound assignments dress in completely dayglo-blue uniforms while starship medics have the "standard style".
An interesting implication of Odo's statement is that an astrophysicist would also be protected by his uniform. Makes sense in a way, since he would be a "civilian" with limited combat roles - but OTOH, the enemy would gain no advantage from not firing on him, since there would be no corresponding civilians in the enemy ranks so the idea "if you kill my medics, I kill yours, so let's not" would not wash. Not that Klingons would have medics, either, for that matter.
Also, the practice of using blue shirts as noncombatant symbols would clash a bit with the fact that "Arena" showed us a blueshirted Tactical Officer under Kirk... And what about the era of TOS-movie 2-6 uniforms and their between-series variants? It seems obvious that medics wore light green at that time.
I wonder if the Klingons or Cardassians kept a little notebook? "Hmm, let's see, Tuesday, May 3rd 2353. Don't shoot the red ones, except if they have yellow stripes on their collars. Yellow stripes, not orange. The orange ones are their death commandoes until about noon on Friday. Then they revert back to last year's system of medics being shirts and infantry being skins on alternate days. We're expecting news on which days will be which any time now. Oh, and the guys with skirts don't carry those awful multi-barreled sonic weapons any more - it seems the skirt's just a regular dress uniform nowadays. So you can stop aiming at them specifically."
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
Not that I don't enjoy the sarcasm...:0)...but I think Odo simply meant that Bashir shouldn't count on his role as a medic to protect him. Not necessarily that blue Sf uniforms were known the quadrant over as being off limits in a fire fight.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
I'd guess that the Klingons would know about it though. I doubt it would stop them firing (which is what Odo was implying, I think). Besides, Starfleet medical personel often engage in firefights, so I'm guessing that there's no Trek-era rule against shooting the medical military. Unless Starfleet are being really unfair.
"I'm a doctor, don't mind me, Romulans."
"Oh, fair enough."
"Can you direct me to where your weapons are? I just want to through this grenade in there, and blow it up."
"Crumbs. Well, if you weren't a doctor, I'd kill you on the spot. But since you've got the blue suit on, I guess I can't do anything. It's about 100 meters behind that hill."
"Thank you kindly."
------------------ "And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!" -Bubbles
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