posted
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, since it would change the pronunciation of all the words...
And a 'ß' is lowercase. There's no capital, because it never comes at the beginning of a word. Of course, if you want to write a word in all-capitals, it's a tall letter, so you can just use it as it is.
The 'ÿ' is a completely different letter. It doesn't occur in German. I don't actually know where it's used. I assume it occurs where it does in the character set just because it was a convenient spot.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
The double-dot above a vowel has two common meanings. In German-related languages, it transforms the open vowel into a more nasal variant. For example a (as in "car") becomes � (as in "cat", although the length of the sound doesn't change). In Finnish, we only use �/a-umlaut/ae and �/o-umlaut/oe, but usually u-umlaut/ue is used as well. It's just that apparently my computer crashes if I try to type the letter for u-umlaut in Netscape...
If you see the double-dot over some vowel other than a, o or u, it's probably not a real umlaut. Instead, it just means the vowel is given more length, pitch and accent than one would expect. You see that a lot in (French) translitterations of Arabic or of "exotic" languages.
The a-with-a-circle is a Swedish speciality. It basically transforms a into an open variant of o, when the regular o in Swedish is usually very closed and resembles u in pronunciation. Sometimes it's translitterated as aa, but the Danes hate that since their aa isn't pronounced like that (any more than the "ae" in "Gaelic" is pronounced as a-umlaut). In Finland, we actually call the a-with-a-circle "the Swedish o", and thus "STARG�TE" gives us the same sort of giggles as Lily's "Borg? Sounds Swedish" line. The show's name is pronounced something like "Star-goth-e" around here...
Oh, and the Danes and Norwegians insist on writing o-umlaut not with a double-dot, but with a slash across the o. Silly them. It's basically the same letter anyway.
Boy, that was dull. Next week: how to tell the different types of Nordic ski events apart.
posted
Thanks TIMO! Woo, and to prolong this 'boring' subject, how DO you pronounce the a-e 0 ligatures (�) and the o-e and u-e (I don't see them on my character map)!?!
I always thought � was more an 'ee' sound?
Thanks
���w
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
You'll hear "ae" pronounced like a long 'a', a long 'e', and a long 'i'. If it's from Latin, it should be a long 'i' (just try saying the two sounds separately: ah-ee; it sounds like an 'i').
Of course, in German, "ae" is just another way to write 'ä', so it's pronounced like a long 'a' or short 'e' (depending upon how it's used). The 'ö' is pronounced by rounding your lips for an 'o', but saying either a long 'a' or short 'e'. The 'ü' is pronounced by doing the lip-rounding thing and saying either a long 'e' or a short 'i'.
And every time I refer to a long or short vowel, I'm talking about the way those vowels are pronounced in English.
BTW, "umlaut" is the German word for the double-dots over a letter. In English, it's called a diaresis. Usually in English it's used to show that two vowels in a row are pronounced separately, rather than as a diphthong ("naïve", "coöperation"). However, that went out of practice quite a while ago, so you're not likely to see it much, if at all.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Oh, and regarding the ligatures... You'll usually find 'æ' and 'œ' in Latin. I'm not sure if the form "ue" ever exists in Latin, but, if it does, it isn't a diphthong. The sounds are separate, so the letters are written separately. There is no ligature for "ue", so that's why you couldn't find one.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
For what it's worth, in linguistics [�] is the vowel sound in Eng. "cat" or "hat," a rare sound in most other languages. That particular symbol is used because on a logical chart of vowels that sound falls just between the a of "father" and the e of "pet."
posted
Andrew: What? The only reason I can think that you would see an ampersand is if you were seeing the HTML code I typed instead of the letters (e.g. "ö" instead of 'ö'). But I looked over my posts, and I didn't mistype any of them. Where are you seeing ampersands?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
TSN - don't worry - I forget now what that was about the ampersand... I think I didn't at first realise it was the forum's font for an ampersand!?! It was a while ago.
And the reason for digging up this old thread was?
Andrew
np: "UR" - Alanis Morrissette
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
