posted
I'm not sure it was the quality of his acting (who can say? throughout Philip Anglim's stint as Vedek Bareil, I kept wondering whether he was playing the role very mysteriously, or was just a bad actor; eventually his return as Mirror Bareil made me lean toward the former); the problem lay more in the fact that he played it very low-key, and that wasn't what they wanted in a space opera. Problem is, we then got Bruce "Get the Hell out of the Actor's Studio!" Boxleitner instead.
posted
You're again talking to me if as if my argument was "B5 had 100% realistic dialogue.", That's not my argument. Assume for a moment that a piece of dialogue is .05% realistic. What I said was that if you spend too much time on it, it becomes .04% realistic.
And regardless of what Mike O'Hare says about how *good* the dialogue was (I was rather speaking about realism, i.e. "I ascended" vs. "I got up"), to that I can only say that B5 won two Hugo Awards in a row. Only TOS of all the Star Trek series had managed the same feat ("The Menagerie", "City on the Edge of Forever"), while TNG won two awards but not in a row ("Inner Light", "All Good Things").
Here are the candidates for 1996, when "The Coming of Shadows" won:
Apollo 13 (Universal) Brian Grazer, producer; Ron Howard, director; William Broyles Jr. and Al Reinert, screenplay "The Coming of Shadows" (Babylon 5 Warner Brothers) J. Michael Straczynski, Douglas Netter, John Copeland, producers; J. Michael Straczynski, screenplay; Janet Greek, director "The Visitor" (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Paramount Television) Rick Berman and Ira Steven Behr, executive producers; Michael Taylor, screenplay; David Livingston, director Toy Story (Buena Vista) Ralph Guggenheim and Bonnie Arnold, producers; John Lasseter, director; Joss Whedon, Andrew Stanton, Joel Cohen, and Alec Sokolow, screenplay 12 Monkeys (Universal) Charles Roven, producer; Terry Gilliam, director; David and Janet Peoples, screenplay
And here are the candidates for 1997, which is when "Severed Dreams" won, while two more B5 eps could've been nominated if JMS had wanted that:
Independence Day (Centropolis Film Productions/20th Century Fox Film) Directed by Roland Emmerich, Written by Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich, Produced by Dean Devlin Mars Attacks! (Warner Bros.) Directed by Tim Burton, Written by Jonathan Gems, Produced by Tim Burton and Larry Franco Babylon 5 "Severed Dreams" (Warner Bros.) Directed by David J. Eagle, Written by J. Michael Straczynski, Produced by John Copeland Star Trek: First Contact (Paramount Pictures) Directed by Jonathan Frakes, Story by Ronald D. Moore, Brannon Braga & Rick Berman, Screenplay by Ronald D. Moore & Brannon Braga, Produced by Rick Berman Star Trek: Deep Space Nine "Trials and Tribble-ations" (Paramount Pictures) Directed by Jonathan West, Written by Ronald D. Moore & Rene Echevarria, Story by Ira Steven Behr & Hans Beimler & Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Executive Producers Ira Steven Behr & Rick Berman. Based upon the original series Star Trek episode The Trouble with Tribbles by David Gerrold. Note: Two Babylon 5 episodes, "War without End" and "Z'Ha'Dum," received enough votes to be nominated but J. Michael Straczynski declined.
This is as objective as we get as far as the quality of B5 writing is concerned. While it probably isn't the best writing in the world, it does seem it's better than that of Voyager or DS9 at the time. DS9 wasn't even nominated in the following years, while B5 was, in 1999 ("Sleeping in Light") -- only "Insurrection" competed with this episode.
Hence, I don't see a problem with saying that the VOY/ENT crew could learn a thing or two about writing from B5's crew. After all, that's what B5 depended on -- it never had enough money to match the other shows' visual effects or other aspects of production.
[ April 04, 2002, 19:26: Message edited by: Boris ]
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
It does help that B5 was about something. It had a direction in which to travel. Maybe a vision. I don't know that Enterprise has that right now.
-------------------- "Nah. The 9th chevron is for changing the ringtone from "grindy-grindy chonk-chonk" to the theme tune to dallas." -Reverend42
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
(Hugos) = (People's Choice Awards) - (People with that hip pop culture fixation that alternately vexes and fascinates Sizers)^(1/avg. number of sexual partners in convention hall attendee)
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Nifty = could use that beer glass Intelligent = couldn't agree more, got blasted on another board for suggesting this was right Funny = but true Scary = the whole gov. or the treaty referendum? Wise = Rex Murphy?
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Everyone asks where my signatures comes from.
The first is a quote from Theodore Roosevelt's father, which his son lived by. As for the typos, yea I know, but didn't feel like correcting them. It means even though you might be the most powerful man/woman in the world, don't act like it, help others less fortunate than yourself.
The last one I made it up. It means don't let things get to you.
-------------------- Matrix If you say so If you want so Then do so
Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Y'know, I really like B5. I do. I think if you removed 50% of it's first season, 80% of it's final season, two of the movies and assorted episodes, you'd end up with my favouritest TV series of all time ever.
But "Life is a candle, forever haunting the darkness that must rise with the sun" got old. The dialogue veered between "sometimes naturally humourous" (usually Garibaldi and/or Zack, who I loved despite his shitness), to really, really, really, really, really bad. In fact, worse than that. Awful.
Of course, I also liked Boxleitner. Honest. I thought he could do quiet anger really well. I even thought he pulled off crying quite well (which is difficult. Most male actors look stupid when they have to cry). He seemed to take a large downturn in season 5 though. The ginger hair obviously affected his brain.
All the cast were horrendous at doing double takes though.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
And I think Ivanova made more jokes about being Russian in the first half of the first season than Chekov did in his entire career...
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
OK, so...yeah. "Futurama" finale anyone? Poor Welshy...he stayed unintelligible to the bitter end.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
Ivonova also had more lines in the first half of season 1 than Chekov did in his entire career though, so it balances out.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I saw that episode... very interesting. Too bad the crew got back together in cartoon form only. Oh well... at least it's something. Anyway, I think Star Trek should take a nice 14 year break now...
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
