posted
Star Wars has a really defined line between Good and Bad. It also has a sort of knight in shining armor mentality where the good defeats the evil. The good makes evil good. In addition when it first came out, it had the best SFX at that time, combined with the first space fighter dog fight, that kept you glued to your seat. All other space fighter dogfights are afterwards copied after that.
Only Star Trek in ST2 actually showed a different form of a space battle. The problem is that as much as we'd like to think, the whole concept is not 'with' the world, and so unlike Star Wars which catches a bigger part, Star Trek catches only a smaller part.
If Star Trek is to pass Star Wars, then first it has to have ground breaking events in it that attracts the whole world to go see it. Next, the story has to be something the people can relate to at that time. At the very least as well, it has have such good writing that it has the perfect mix of everything that a movie needs to keep the people happy.
Episode 1 did good for the simple reason it was like what 15 years since a Star wars movie was made? So what happened was that it got people constantly hyped so that 2 weeks before the premiere, they start camping out. There was a massive fan base, like the Harry Potter movie. That's it. The movie itself was not good, with horrible acting by the kid, cartoony special effects, and a plot that makes it seem to be made for kids only.
Star Trek had its downpoints as well, like ST5 and ST7. ST9 was ok that it made money, same goes for The Slow Motion Picture.
-------------------- Matrix If you say so If you want so Then do so
Registered: Jul 2000
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I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but Jake Lloyd really wasn't that bad. And look at what he had to work with.
And "Episode 1 was written for kids" has never been a decent argument for me. Star Wars is for kids. Not in the sense of it's for young people. More in it's lack of complexity (and I don't mean that as an insult). Not every film has to be a Vertigo, Fight Club, or similar. You can have fun knockabout good vs evil and have it be great. And Star Wars was.
"The only significant changes have been the refit of the original Enterprise (and the destruction of same), and the destruction of the TNG Enterprise. And both for the same reason -- the TV miniature wasn't detailed enough for the big screen."
Er, which is why the Enterprise-D wasn't seen on the big screen at all in Generations then?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:The only significant changes have been the refit of the original Enterprise (and the destruction of same), and the destruction of the TNG Enterprise. And both for the same reason -- the TV miniature wasn't detailed enough for the big screen.
Whatever about the reasons, I'm sorry to hear we're now defining the changing of ship models as "significant."
Star Trek has always been about ending with something reasonably close to the status quo. So have a great many other films, including most "franchises," many of which are overall probably better pieces of celluloid than the Treks. I wouldn't consider it a tell-tale mark of good or bad filmaking if James Bond lives to fight another evil megalomaniac with an assortment of gadgets, or if Indiana Jones rides off into the sunset with a new relic in-hand while retaining all limbs and a fear of snakes.
quote:I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but Jake Lloyd really wasn't that bad. And look at what he had to work with.
He was that bad. But the script was worse.
"I was wondering... what ARE midichlorians?"
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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I would say that the best original series movies were different fro the series in one fairly significant way, how the characters had aged. Both II and VI (which are fairly highly received overall) portray Kirk and co as a crew realising that they aren't young trailblazers anymore, and with differing conclusions reached.
Kirk wearing a pair of glasses in ST II is, to me, much more significant than the Enterprise-D becoming the Ent-E.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but Jake Lloyd really wasn't that bad. And look at what he had to work with.
quote:He was that bad. But the script was worse.
The kid was excrutiatingly bad. Even the script (which I didn't mind that much), Jar Jar, and George Lucus' directly rolled together couldn't equal his complete horribleness.
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Obi Juan: [qb] [QUOTE] I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but Jake Lloyd really wasn't that bad. And look at what he had to work with.
quote:He was that bad. But the script was worse.
The kid was excrutiatingly bad. Even the script (which I didn't mind that much), Jar Jar, and George Lucus' directing rolled together couldn't equal his complete horribleness.
[ April 27, 2002, 23:15: Message edited by: Obi Juan ]
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but Jake Lloyd really wasn't that bad. And look at what he had to work with.
quote:He was that bad. But the script was worse.
The kid was excrutiatingly bad. Even the script (which I didn't mind that much), Jar Jar, and George Lucus' directing rolled together couldn't equal his complete horribleness.
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: Originally posted by Matrix: Star Wars has a really defined line between Good and Bad. It also has a sort of knight in shining armor mentality where the good defeats the evil. The good makes evil good.
Unfortunately, it also has a strong letting-you-off-the-hook mentality, too. Darth Vader spends more than twenty years serving the Dark Side, committing who knows how many atrocities, and he earns his way into Jedi heaven simply by killing the Emperor? No mention of atonement for his sins? It's particularly grating because he didn't do it for any altruistic notion; he did it for the selfish reason of saving his son's life. Isn't selfish behavior one of the things that leads you to the Dark Side?
-------------------- The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits.
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
We are talking about the Force here. Apparently hen you go from Dark to Light all your past sins are washed away like nothing happened. It was the work of the Dark Side not your true self. They got their system messed up big time.
-------------------- Matrix If you say so If you want so Then do so
Registered: Jul 2000
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Just saw the title to this thread... remember the "Gene" Seinfeld episode... where George had to BEAT Gene to get the girl - even though he had her! Then he wanted Gene's secret! (The Same as the Mandelbaum/Crepe episode/Kramer's Cubans - who were people and Dominicans, and how Elaine HATED The English Patient - and always wanted to see "Sack Lunch" LOL!)
[ April 30, 2002, 09:12: Message edited by: AndrewR ]
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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...........yeah......anyway so i sez to mable i sez.....
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