posted
Chronowerx only existed in Alternate 2, Aban, which wasn't significantly different from Original. Just one powerful company dominant instead of others doing the exact same things they did, and a few UFO sightings were the only changes. Oh, and Starling died in a manner inconsistant with Original.
Basically, there's no way to tell what universe we've been watching all this time, because no one's ever looked up the historical records on screen. The only time travel that would indicate the existance of Cronowerx would be Trek IV, and they never said it DIDN'T exist, so I see no reason to go with either one. The entirity of all the series probably took place without significant differences in both universes, so it doesn't particularly matter. But I'd say that all the changes affected in the past by alternate one would probably be excized by the temporal police, so we're probably watching Original now.
Original IS where we exist right now, minus some time-travelers that never showed up. At least, as far as we know...
Oh, and the ship crash CAN'T be identical in both alternates. The loop has to be started by an outside source, otherwise it would NEVER happen. Someone had to cause a temporal explosion involving Voyager to start the loop, and to do that someone had to use a timeship in an improper manner. So I'm guessing that someone somehow got a hold of a timeship like Rasmussen and Starling did, and for some odd reason went to Voyager before going to the 29th century. The chances of it being Starling getting a hold of Braxton's ship are rediculously slim, but I suppose it's possible. It doesn't particularly matter, though.
Perhaps our Rasmussen pulled the same stunt the original Rasmussen did and stole a time traveler's timeship. The timetraveler might have programmed it to go visit Voyager so _they_ could stop our Berlinghoff from screwing things up with minimal damage to the timeline. After all, she is isolated from everyone else. Better than sending the guy to the heart of the Federation, where he could damage Q knows what. But the plan backfired and our Rasmussen figured out how to get to the 29th century AFTER encountering Voyager. Voyager entered the rift while trying to stop him, and was destroyed in the subsequent temporal explosion. Thus the loop begins. Sound good?
Or maybe our Rasmussen for some reason was trying to help Voyager get home. Maybe Barclay built a ship capable of warping space to get you wherever you wanted to go, thinking he could create a rift in space that would get Voyager back to Earth. But somehow he ended up taking them to the 29th century Earth instead, and blowing up the system. Ya think?
Nah.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Oh, and what TerraZ's missing is that these loops don't just exist in and of themselves. They have to be started in some way, like I described. Chronowerx' existance occured only in the loop, which was most likely excized from the timestream. Thus it is probably not part of the past of the Trek we see every week.
I believe that idea about minor changes being factored out was mentioned in "Statistical Probabilities" on DS9.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Uhm... Didn't Janeway say "... the computer revolution in the late 20th century never should have hapened (...) and we ow it all to mr. Starling." ??
------------------ The Miranda Class model is not a kitbash, it is a bashkit.
posted
Actually, I believe the reason that temporal paradoxes are paradoxes is because they have no outside source as a begining. Effect precedes cause and thus becomes the cause, but remains the effect of the event that it caused. This is exactly why it is a paradox.
Janeway even mentioned this dilemma in "Time and Again".
I believe the ultimate conclusion of a temporal paradox (to an outside observer) that involved the time traveler preventing his birth (or construction of his starship or whatever) would be that the person would only exist during the period of time from when he or she arrived in the past and the time that they initiated the event that exised them or their ship or whatever from their proper place in the time line.
-Before you ask what this has to do with anything, just consider this a theory on temporal paradoxes submitted for your approval-
Take for instance Back to the Future. Say after Marty saved his dad in the past, he had been unable to repair that damage (actually, he would have had no opportunity to prevent the damage as he would have disappeared as soon has he interfered). Marty never would have been born in the 60's and never would have existed to be able to back to the 50's. Therefore you might conclude that history would right itself and everything would be back on track. But than the events would take place again as we saw them in the movie. And we're back to square 1. So the solution (again to an outside observer) is that Marty McFly would only ever have existed for the few hours between the time he arrived in 1955 and the time he altered history. Fortunately though, the young lad was able to fix the problem. This opportunity was no doubt due to some residual subspace field that protected him for the changes in the timeline...
Anyway, have at the hole punching!!
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
TSN, I mean that people say it's okay for DS9 not to mention the Eugenics Wars 20 years afterward (especially with opportunities such as "How could they let this [the sanctuary distrincts and the attitudes concerning them] happen to themselves?", references to the 1990s and how things have changed and so on). But it's also not okay for Voyager to do the same, and just subtly mention that "yes, they did happen" (with the DY-100 model), while not overcomplicating the plot with it.
Strikes me as a double standard, despite significant time difference between the settings.
posted
That's because that was the Janeway of alternate 2, Altair. She never experienced a history without Starling, and thus wouldn't know that the electronics revolution would still have happend without him.
Aban:
Which is why such paradoxi are logically impossible. From an external perspective, there MUST be a cause for the loop existing. A loop does not nesecarily constitute a paradox. Say I find a time machine buried in my back yard. I go back in time, build a time machine THEN, and bury it in what will be my back yard for me to find in the future. But how did the machine get there to begin with? It's a loop, but not nesecarily a paradox. Say someone ELSE not involved with time travel buried a time machine there AFTER the point in the past were I burried mine. I'd find his, go back in time, build mine and bury it there. The other person would not bury HIS machine, since mine was already there. But there'd still be a time machine there, and I'd still go back in time and bury a time machine there. It becomes a loop, but not a paradox, since it did have a beginning from a 5-D POV. The loop can not exist without something starting it.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Garak: The existence of the DY-100 doesn't mean that the Eugenics Wars happened. Think about it: The "Future's End" timeline was the same as the normal Trek timeline, except that Starling had caused an accelerated development of technology. In normal Trek, the DY-100 had already been created by 1996. In the FE timeline, it might have been invented even earlier. Therefore, a scientist could have a model of it on her desk, just like a real-world scientist might keep a model of a space shuttle or Sputnik or some such.
Besides, since it's an alternate timeline, it is alright for them not to mention the Eugenics Wars. The thing is, the encyclopedia could have said this, but they didn't bother to think about it. Instead, they put down the first thing they thought of: California just happened to be unscathed. This was unnecessary. All they had to say was that, since the timeline was changed, the Eugenics Wars didn't happen.
------------------ "To make the merry-go-round go faster, so that everyone needs to hang on tighter, just to keep from being thrown to the wolves." -They Might Be Giants, "They Might Be Giants"
posted
TSN: I'm going to postulate here that the "normal" Trek timeline IS the Future's End time line. For instance, When we were looking at Kirk wake Khan up in "Space Seed", Khan could very well have known about Henry Starling and, if he would've taken taken a trip to L.A. before being sent off into space, he might have run into Janeway and company.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
Possible at the very least; likely, even. One wonders if Starling and Khan were buddies. Khan (or some other superman) taught the hippie how to read the time machine, and Starling secretly manipulated the US into not participating in the Eugenics Wars...
Accepting "Future's End" as part of the actual Trek timeline doesn't create any obvious continuity failures. And it nicely sets up the accelerated drive to space that eventually makes it possible for Cochrane to launch a rocket all by himself, at apparent shoestring budget.
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