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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » Other Television Shows » Enterprise: Your overall opinion thus far... (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Enterprise: Your overall opinion thus far...
Dukhat
Hater of Stock Footage
Member # 341

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I don't think it's going to be Sela. IMHO, she wasn't a strong enough villain to be a recurring character in this show. (Although it would make sense if the Romulans turned out to be a no-factor: She somehow prevented the Earth/Romulan war so her people could emerge stronger...nah, that makes too much sense to work right )

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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Siegfried
Fullmetal Pompatus
Member # 29

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Sela may not have been a strong villian when she appeared in TNG, but this could be a chance to have her become a strong villian. I mean, we haven't yet had a strong Romulan villian on Star Trek (with the possible exception of Mark Lenard in "Balance of Terror").

Alas, you are probably right that it won't be Sela. A shame, though, because I think that would a nice tie-in while at the same time revealing what happened to her character after she allowed Picard, Data, and Spock to thwart the Romulan plans again. However, I doubt wonder how many people are going to see Sela and remember the entire backstory that she has and why she hates humanity so much. She only appeared in two episodes (both fifth season TNG, I think).

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The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.


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Bernd
Guy from Old Europe
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The case "Akiraprise" is closed for me, no matter how the ship's bottom may look, but Commander Dan expresses almost exactly what I think too. Well, I was never much into Trek fandom publications, but even if we discard them as non-canon it is a point that these publications give a certain feel of how starships look and work in certain eras, unlike the official Trek (with the exception of the TNGTM).

Siegfried:
I don't claim that I know how a starship from the 22nd century should look, but I know how it shouldn't look. That's why I can tell that the Akiraprise is wrong, because it has design features that will show up on (much) later ships. Commander Dan summed this up quite nicely. Even if we may excuse some of the flaws in the details, for instance the RCS quads, claiming that the NCC-1701 should have had them too, it is still too modern overall. And finally, even if we accept a ship 100-200 years ahead of its time, it is so close to the Akira even in tiny details that we would have to erase the Akira from history in order to rationalize it (I would prefer erasing the Akiraprise).


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Siegfried
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Bernd, we're just going to have to disagree on the issue of the Enterprise's design. I honestly do not have a problem with the ship. It looks like the Akira-class with some modifications, yes. But the same thing has happened before in the Star Trek universe. Take the Daedalus, increase the size, give it an Excelsior-esque secondary hull, throw on some seemingly TNG-era nacelles and you've got the Olympic class. Take the Constituation-refit, increase the size, move the impulse engines, give it Excelsior-esque nacelle pylons, and throw on TNG-era nacelles, and you've got the Ambassador. Take the NX-01 Enterprise, increase the size, give it an elliptical saucer, streamline the catamarans, put a bigger pod higher up, move the pylons down, throw on TNG-era nacelles, and you've got the Akira. Erasing either ship from the timeline would be an extreme move, and I don't think the situation warrants it. For me and many other people, the ships causes no problems like the ones that you and many other people find with it.

However, one thing that is consistently being overlooked in regards to Enterprise by people on both sides of the ship debate is that the ship is not the freakin' focus of the ship. The ship is a method of conveying the story, but Star Trek has been and should always be about the people. Yes, when writing the stories attention has to be paid to the role of technology, continuity, previous established information, and the like. But the focus is on the characters and how they grow over the course of the series. The focus is on the chemistry between the characters. I'm not a fan of the Voyager design. However, I did not allow myself to be bogged down by this one facet of the show to, in my mind, scrape the whole series. Yeah, Voyager had other problems besides the ship's design, but I found enough good in it to overlook those problems and enjoy the series.

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The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.


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Commander Dan
Member
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Let me state up front that I absolutely agree that Enterprise (and all Star Trek for that matter) SHOULD be about the people. The characters are unquestionably the most important aspect. Certainly, good writing executed by good actors should be the basis for high quality television.

However, I think that the reason people like me are in such a crazed homicidal frenzy over the new the ship is that Berman and company are messing around with what we consider to be a main character of the Star Trek universe. While the people should be the focus, the ship (or space station) is the primary setting, and thus, quite important.

Specifically, a pre-TOS ship design is a REALLY touchy subject; more so than the ships of recent Trek. Why? Well, new 24th century designs are just that; NEW. In Voyager, DS9, or the movies, Trek has always been MOVING FORWARD, so it really didn’t matter whether I liked a particular ship or not. (For example, I was never a big fan of the Enterprise-E. Nonetheless, I didn’t throw a big hissy fit like I am with the Akiraprise.)

Now comes Enterprise, a “PREQUEL,” which puts my own view of Star Trek ship linage to the ultimate test. And on my personal scorecard, the NX-01 fails miserably.

Disliking the U.S.S. Voyager because one doesn’t personally care for the design is one thing. Disliking the Akiraprise because one doesn’t find that it is an appropriately designed pre-TOS ship is totally different.

All that being said, I wish to reiterate that I will give Enterprise a look, and if the stories are good, I will “forgive” the ship design and enjoy the show as best I can! (Although, I do reserve the right to keep fussing about the Akiraprise!)

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Commander Dan ]



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“My experience with Rick Berman is, you know, he does not understand what he's doing, he does not understand science fiction.”
-- Andrew Probert

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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621

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Hey! Dan saved me a lot of writing! Thanks!

Anyway - what he said. Exactly.

Really, word for word.

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If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.


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Siegfried
Fullmetal Pompatus
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Actually, I think that my analogy with Voyager is in the same vein as what's going on with the Enterprise design. Everyone has in their mind what the ship should look like. This is based on personal preferences and opinions on the various intricacies of starship design.

I don't like the Voyager design because it lacked the grace and elegance that I had come to expect from TOS, the movies, and TNG. She's a chubby design. Her primary section looks heinously unbalanced with the secondary section. It's a look contrary to the personal preferences I had based on the original and refit Enterprise, the Enterprise-D, and the Excelsior. The nacelles looked hideously short and incapable of the vast range of speeds she was reputed to have. The location of the impulse engines seems a tactical mistake, and the flappable pylons seem to be another. And the overall size and shape does not lend itself to a ship that could survive what the producers intended to put her through.

The people that do not like the Enterprise's design can have their reasons stated in a similar fashion. It goes against the ship designs for the period that people have formulated in their minds by truly taking to heart the fandom publications that showed TOS contemporary ship designs and earlier. You yourself said that your basis for thinking that the Enterprise doesn't jive was based on having grown up and experienced the birth and expansion of fandom's role in filling the gaps left by TOS. From a lot of those works, pre-TOS ships were quite similar to the NCC-1701. Smooth hulls, typically a primary/secondary/twin nacelle configuration or a variation of that same theme, no real exterior signs of things like airlocks, transporter emitters, RCS assemblies, and the like.

In the end, we like or dislike the ships based solely on our opinions on how things should be. We have no canonical evidence of what things were like in the era that Enterprise takes place. It's never been explored; we have one Starfleet ship design from the era. Fandom helped fill in that gap. For some that watch Star Trek, we can accept the existence of that design in that era regardless of whether we've been exposed to fandom's ship designs. For some others that watch Star Trek, they can't accept the existence of that design in that era regardless of whether they've been exposed to fandom's ship designs. It really does simply come down to what we think about the subject.

I'm glad that some of the people that aren't happy with the ship are choosing to stay open-minded and watch the show to at least give it a chance. I've read other's posts on other boards, and simply because of the ship, they are refusing to watch. I've also read posts of people that are refusing to watch based the Klingon's foreheads, based on Berman and Braga producing it, based on Jolene Blalock being cast as a Vulcan, and based on solely of it being set in 2151. I agree with you that the ship is an important part of the show. It is the medium of storytelling and the setting for the show. At times, the ship does appear to become a character of the show. But it's not the single most important facet of the show. Let's hope that the writers remember this and focus on the people.

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The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.


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Mikey T
Driven
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If the writers don't remember then, I'll just shove down their throats all my Star Trek starship models as a lesson.

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"It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans."
-Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek

Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged
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