capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Well.. actually the Vulcans rule isnt 'non-interference' its 'running interference'
While the Federation would steer clear and surreptitiously observe a precontact planet (such as Malcor) and then make overtures to help them when they discover warp, the Vulcans are: steering clear of earth, observe us achieve warp, and then diplomatically blockade our star system and prevent us from using the technology we discovered. While the Federation probably wouldnt have let the Malcorians take their first warp jaunt into the Neutral Zone, they also might invite them to attend the Council meetings and show them our infrastructure, but the Vulcans enforce isolationism among all the inferior cultures they meet rather then encourage the freedom of movement and communication that would make an interstellar Federation possible.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
quote:prevent us from using the technology we discovered.
When did they do this? If this was the case, they'd've blown Enterprise out of the sky and the series would be over.
What they're doing is not providing scientific knowledge to Earth. That's why Archer's pissed (as best as I can tell): his dad was on the verge of a major breakthrough in warp theory, and the Vulcans knew where he was having trouble (but didn't tell him).
[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Theres the matter of not letting us expedite diplomacy with other races besides them, and trying to interfere in the affairs of our planet (if we find an alien on our world, the Vulcans ask us to give him to them?)
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Yes, they asked. They didn't send in shock troops when Earth said "hell no!" As for the "modern" Prime Directive as seen in TOS/TNG etc., I do believe (I could be wrong) that part of Starfleet's duty is to act in the same way the Vulcans are -- shielding an emerging society from other races who might do it harm. Now, certainly, perhaps the Vulcans are taking on this role longer then Starfleet would, but they're hardly sending in an occupation force. They're more like a cautious parent nervous about sending their child to school.
quote:Theres the matter of not letting us expedite diplomacy with other races besides them,
I missed this. When did this happen?
[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
posted
Erm...Klingon blood has been visually identical to human stuff in every instance but one. What about it?
As for the Vulcans vs. the Warp 5 Complex, why is everyone assuming that Archer's suspicion is correct? It's not like we've been given anything resembling proof that the Vulcans held back technology. Their efforts would seem to be primarily diplomatic in focus.
posted
On the subject of Klingon blood: The only reason why it was pink in STVI was so the movie could have a PG rating instead of an R. TPTB had no intention of making the blood pink before this, and apparently had no intention of keeping it that way after.
On the subject of Enterprise continuity: What many people don't seem to understand is that even with the premiere episode, events have changed enough from the normal timeline to make a case that this series is now on an alternate timeline, and that continuity really doesn't matter anymore. Observe: (Warning-Spoilers Ahead) $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ Normal ST timeline: No temporal cold war. The Suliban are a third-rate backwater civilization that no one's ever heard of and no one ever will. That's why they are never mentioned in TOS, movies, TNG, DS9, VOY, etc. There is no reason for Klaang to even be near Earth, since there is no Suliban plot to destabilize the Empire. As such, whenever the true Klingon first contact is supposed to be, that's when it goes horribly wrong.
Revised ENT timeline: Because of Future Guy, the Suliban are much more advanced, thereby causing the "first contact" events we see in Broken Bow, which is subsequently different than the picture Picard layed out in TNG. I don't know about anyone else, but this new first contact looked pretty successful to me. This now possibly changes the entire premise of Star Trek, which is what B&B were presumably trying to do.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
posted
Erm... The Suliban are an everyday, "backwater" race. It's just a group of them who have been genetically altered to fight this war. For all we know, the main body of the Suliban race have no idea what's going on, and end up having nothing to do w/ anything, and that's why they're never mentioned again.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:The Suliban are a third-rate backwater civilization that no one's ever heard of and no one ever will. That's why they are never mentioned in TOS, movies, TNG, DS9, VOY, etc.
So, the Organians are a third-rate backwater civilization, and that's why we only saw them on TOS?
And since Enterprise is chronologically the first series, don't you mean the ENT time line is correct, and the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY time line is altered?
posted
I'll not get into the mud hole with the rest at this time... at the moment my original statement was this:
quote:If they think that small tips of the hat will make me happy when they've already landed punches they are mistaken.
The small tips of the hat included all those little subtile things such as the swoosh of the door. The landed punches included the design of the ship being a ripoff of the Akira-Class, the straddling of terminology [Phase Pistol, Phaser], etc etc etc. We disagree on many things...
For the record, I liked "Broken Bow" as a TV show, but as Star Trek I'm highly POed.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
The_Tom, you look like a man who could use a drink. Name your poison and I'll see about whipping it up for ya.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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