posted
Sorry to bring up the catacombs thing again but I did notice that T'pol was scanning in the catacombs and did not detect the array but did detect the Andorians in the room next to the array. I think this is good evidence to the theory that the Vulcans were jamming sensor readings as to it's whereabouts. Secondly about the "tricorder" T'pol was using when the array was found. Archer say to her "Does that have visual scanning" or some such phrase. This makes me wonder if the "tricorders" they carry have different functions depending on what they are using them for on the mission. Paul
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I thought Archer was referring to the equipment in the array itself. Hmmm.
-------------------- "Nah. The 9th chevron is for changing the ringtone from "grindy-grindy chonk-chonk" to the theme tune to dallas." -Reverend42
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
i enjoyed the episode very much as well. one question though.....t'pol stated that the sanctuary was built 3000 years ago. by who? the vulcans? how could the vulcans travel in space 3000 years ago?
Registered: Jun 2001
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Since before the reformation of Surak theyve had space travel. (which is usually dated btween 2000-5000 years ago, i forget if they nailed it down more specifically) Because the Romulans left before or during the time of Suraks reformation.. and howd they get to Romulus? You guessed it.. space travel
(well that the simplest explanation anyway and seems the most likely. ) Those of you that like to do non-simple explanations can say that the Romulans got to Romulus without having space travel. Occam doesnt like you.
Which raises the question.. Vulcan civilization seems to have hit a plateau, or even stagnated until they met the humans, who helped them make great strides in science and politics by the time of TNG when they are Federated and all of the super-TNG technology is developed.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Or, more likely, they had some sort of "Dark Ages"-like regression which was most difficult to crawl out of due to the inherent emotional nature of the genius spark.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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Why do I think "The Andorian Incident" is the worst Enterprise episode so far?
1. Plot logic: Why do Reed and his team have to damage the monastery, endanger their lives and those of the hostages, if they could simply have beamed up the Andorians (they were only four)? Why do Archer and his crew try to "save" the Vulcan treasure chamber by following the Andorians and destroying half of the artifacts? They must have assumed that it was a dead end and should have just waited. Why has none of the humans ever heard of the Andorians, although the Vulcan database is permanently available?
2. Hideous Vulcans: These are simply not the Vulcans I know. Agreed, they (or better: some of them) may have their dark sides, but since the seventh DS9 season Star Trek is systematically destroying their reputation.
3. Archer's anti-Vulcan attitude: He was only looking for such an opportunity, and although he has not the faintest idea what the Vulcan-Andorian conflict is actually about, he takes the part of the Andorians.
4. Violence: Excessive beating and shooting just doesn't suit the series and can much less compensate for the lack of a good story with real suspense.
5. Trek spirit (or lack thereof): Aside from the evil Vulcans, Archer's rash decision and the violence, there is no discussion about the conflict except for statements from paranoid Andorians and Vulcans. There is also no bottom line to the episode. As a viewer I was as disappointed as the characters in the end. The fight of the peaceful but sneaky against the violent but straightforward will continue, but I just don't want to see it.
quote:Originally posted by Bernd: 2. Hideous Vulcans: These are simply not the Vulcans I know. Agreed, they (or better: some of them) may have their dark sides, but since the seventh DS9 season Star Trek is systematically destroying their reputation.
Guess you never watched "Amok Time" or Star Trek VI, both of which featured Vulcans acting in exactly the same fashion... and both of which predate the seventh season of Deep Space Nine by some time. T'Pring was manipulative and had no qualms about either Kirk or Spock being killed. T'Pau, held in great esteem by humans and Vulcans alike, was openly derisive of humans. "Art thee Vulcan, or art thee human," she sneered, with dripping contempt. Then she conveniently forgot to mention that the fight was to the death, and refused to let the unfamiliar Kirk decline once it was revealed. And this was the first appearance of any Vulcans other than Spock! Valeris was a liar and traitor who plotted to begin a war between two massive empires. I'm afraid you're suffering from a case of selective memory.
You admitted that some Vulcans have dark sides, so frankly I'm confused by why this is any different. I submit that recent portrayals have been no more dark. All that the producers have done with Enterprise is what they've done always done: showing the Vulcans to be capable of just as much individuality as anyone else.
The more important issue is that if the Vulcans are truly logical, there is no room for emotional concerns about offense or even honor. Self-defense is logical, and if that means keeping the potentially dangerous humans "contained" and breaking a treaty to avoid invasion from the Andorians, then there is no logical reason not to do these things. It may well be that these lessons are what turns the Vulcans into the generally acceptable people you remember from chronologically-later Star Trek... even if "Amok Time," Star Trek VI, and "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" prove that there are still some pointy-eared assholes around. After all, "Breaking the Ice" shows that T'Pol is mellowing quite a bit. I bet her reaction is typical of Vulcans who spend time around humans, and with the warp five engine, a lot more interaction is bound to happen.
[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
posted
And this "violence" complaint...what episodes of Star Trek are you holding up as a model, then? Nothing from TOS, obviously. A handful of TNG episodes might make the cut. A smaller handful of DS9 and Voyager.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I don't know, Bernd. "Fight or Flight" was really bad. I'd have to say that the mere presence of Jeffrey Combs makes this a superior episode. I liked the sneakiness of it. You're right on the Vulcans though. Have any of these writers seen any TOS episodes? If so, they certainly aren't getting the dignity and solemnity of Spock. It's kind of sad really. I've allready posted my opinion on the blowing up Vulcan artifacts thing, but all in all I didn't find the violence to be excessive. Perhaps a bit unrealistic, but that's been the standard fair for Trek (Is is just me or could Kirk place really well in an Ultimate Fighting Champion competition?)
-------------------- "Nah. The 9th chevron is for changing the ringtone from "grindy-grindy chonk-chonk" to the theme tune to dallas." -Reverend42
Registered: Sep 2000
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MIB
Ex-Member
posted
quote:1. Plot logic: Why do Reed and his team have to damage the monastery, endanger their lives and those of the hostages, if they could simply have beamed up the Andorians (they were only four)?
Last time I checked, even in TNG, the primary means of locking on to a person with a transporter is through their com-badges. To do it by any other means would have been a bit difficult. With transporters being a very new technology in Enterprise and with sensors not exactly being as good as they were in TOS, TNG, DS9, or VOY, I doubt beaming up the Andorians would have been as easy as you made it out to be.
posted
Still, there's no reason they couldn't have beamed down something, like a couple of stun grenades, directly into the midst of the Andorians. That episode just suffered from too many logic bloopers. The whole mess at the end was totally unjustified.
Silly humans, holes are for shooting through!
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
"I'd have to say that the mere presence of Jeffrey Combs makes this a superior episode."
In other words, the actual quality is unimportant? So, if Combs had played a crewman in the background of "Threshold", it would have been one of the best episodes ever?
Honestly, I thought Combs was severely underused in "The Andorian Incident". His presence can't help the episode much when he hardly does anything.
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