posted
Just my $0.02... $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ So this episode supposedly opens with the scene from ST:FC When the Vulcan ship lands in Montana after detecting Cochrane's warp flight.
Now, I'm guessing that this particular event, in this particular universe, happened WITHOUT the time meddling from the Borg, and subsequently the Enterprise-E crew. The humans, apparently not entirely trusting of these new aliens (and rightly so, since they're still suffering from the aftereffects of WWIII), and not having Riker around to tell Cochrane who they are, viciously attack the Vulcans, killing them and absconding with their ship and technology.
So here are some ruminations I have:
1. This timeline and these events are actually how the timeline was SUPPOSED to happen. Ergo, the mirror universe is actually the "real" universe, and the universe of regular Star Trek is the "alternate" one thanks to the time meddling (Never mind the fact that the "alternate" timeline worked out better for everyone involved).
2. If in this early date, the humans have acquired Vulcan technology, then I'm not sure why the NX-01 would exist. It was a project created to test a new warp-five engine, since the Vulcans had denied the humans their tech. But in the "mirror" universe, the humans already have the Vulcan's tech. Presumably they can build ships that travel as fast as the Vulcans' do. So why need an NX Project? And subsequently, why need the NX-01?There's no reason why it should exist.
I'm wondering if these questions will actually be addressed in the episode. Whay do you all think?
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Since the episode will feature NX-09, Avenger, I think the class was developed much sooner than our universe version and can go significantly faster than Warp 5.
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Just because they captured one Vulcan ship, that doesn't automatically mean they can perfectly reverse engineer it and be completely on par with the Vulcans within a few decades.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And of course, we all know that being able to go along at warp 5 really isn't that bad. Besides, I'm guessing that the first things the humans did was whip off to Vulcan and conquer the potentially dangerous species before they came back wondering what we did with their ship.
Is the mirror universe what happened without the Borg temporal hijinks? I don't think so. I think the evil universe is FUNDAMENTALLY more evil than our own... But I also think that it does beyond the simpler avenues of divergent universes. Otherwise, the extreme coincidences allowing whole crews worth of people to meet each other while together are just TOO wacky.
But I still think that the Defiant will be re-named Enterprise and survive to be commanded by Kirk a hundred years later.
posted
Well, it is too wacky. Any mirror-universe will look vastly different the further away from the point of divergence.
It's a simple domino effect. You start one chain of events off and it's going to go in an entirely different direction.
But, that's what makes it a fun tv show. We wouldn't be nearly as entertained if the Mirror Universe stories didn't have our favorite characters.
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: 1. This timeline and these events are actually how the timeline was SUPPOSED to happen. Ergo, the mirror universe is actually the "real" universe, and the universe of regular Star Trek is the "alternate" one thanks to the time meddling (Never mind the fact that the "alternate" timeline worked out better for everyone involved).
It depends on whether you see the events of FC as a causal loop or just a shift in the timeline. In the "normal" Trek timeline, did Picard & crew always help Cochrane, or did he and his cohorts originally do it by themselves? Did essentially the same events (with different details) occur before the Borg interfered and Our HeroesTM merely "corrected" the interference? Or is the original history that the E-E crew read about actually the same one they helped to create?
I suppose the corollary to this, as much as I hate to admit it, is whether or not ENT is an alternate timeline or not. Because ENT's timeline has been impacted by the temporal events of FC as seen in "Regeneration." But that same episode does seem to imply that a causal loop *is* in fact in place, as the Borg signal is intended to be the original reason why the Borg were heading for Earth in "Q Who?" (TNG). There are other numerous factors which point to ENT being the "true" history of TOS and everything else as well, so I suppose the causal loop-scenario is in fact correct.
However, there is definitely something more to the MU than just an (un)altered timeline. It's not just an alternate universe but a truly parallel one. There is some mysterious reason why everything in our universe has an equal and opposite counterpart in the MU.
Of course, one could argue that this has been inconsistent across series, or even within episodes. In the original "Mirror Mirror" (TOS), while Kirk and McCoy, et al, were literally polar opposites of themselves in the MU, Spock was still a logical, cool-headed Vulcan. There seems to be two different "uses" of the MU by writers. Firstly, to allow actors to play characters of completely opposite nature to the ones they normally play; and secondly, to show what a particular character might have turned out like if they had been exposed to different life circumstances.
Very strange, indeed...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: 1. This timeline and these events are actually how the timeline was SUPPOSED to happen. Ergo, the mirror universe is actually the "real" universe, and the universe of regular Star Trek is the "alternate" one thanks to the time meddling (Never mind the fact that the "alternate" timeline worked out better for everyone involved).
It depends on whether you see the events of FC as a causal loop or just a shift in the timeline. In the "normal" Trek timeline, did Picard & crew always help Cochrane, or did he and his cohorts originally do it by themselves? Did essentially the same events (with different details) occur before the Borg interfered and Our HeroesTM merely "corrected" the interference? Or is the original history that the E-E crew read about actually the same one they helped to create?
I suppose the corollary to this, as much as I hate to admit it, is whether or not ENT is an alternate timeline or not. Because ENT's timeline has been impacted by the temporal events of FC as seen in "Regeneration." But that same episode does seem to imply that a causal loop *is* in fact in place, as the Borg signal is intended to be the original reason why the Borg were heading for Earth in "Q Who?" (TNG). There are other numerous factors which point to ENT being the "true" history of TOS and everything else as well, so I suppose the causal loop-scenario is in fact correct.
However, there is definitely something more to the MU than just an (un)altered timeline. It's not just an alternate universe but a truly parallel one. There is some mysterious reason why everything in our universe has an equal and opposite counterpart in the MU.
Of course, one could argue that this has been inconsistent across series, or even within episodes. In the original "Mirror Mirror" (TOS), while Kirk and McCoy, et al, were literally polar opposites of themselves in the MU, Spock was still a logical, cool-headed Vulcan. There seems to be two different "uses" of the MU by writers. Firstly, to allow actors to play characters of completely opposite nature to the ones they normally play; and secondly, to show what a particular character might have turned out like if they had been exposed to different life circumstances.
Very strange, indeed...
-MMoM
i just thing a MU Kira sucking face with a anti-MU Kira does it for me, myself...
posted
Thank god those quotes were there, or I'd have no idea what you were referring to.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: Well, it is too wacky. Any mirror-universe will look vastly different the further away from the point of divergence.
Indeed. So one would have to assume that the act of "accessing" a parallel universe downselects from the infinite number of parallels, and gives one where the people doing the "accessing" are prominently represented.
So any number of universes may have resulted from the Earthlings storming the T'Plana-Hath lander - but Archer (or in this case, just the audience observing Archer) will only have access to one where his counterpart plays a major role.
The only significant exception from this would be "The Emperor's New Cloak", where Quark accesses a mirror universe where Quark is dead...
posted
If they're going by the theory that there are infinitely many universes, and new ones are created every single time something may have gone diffently, then how do we (or they) even know they're in the same alternative universe? Is the Mirror Universe from TOS the same as the one visited by Sisko? There must be yet another alternative universe where Kirk *never* crossed into the Mirror Universe. There must be an alternative universe where Spock died before starting the revolution.
The real question is whether the Mirror Universe is 'just another' alternative universe, or if it is of a fundamentally different nature. The TOS version could be interpreted as really being a 'mirrored' universe, that is somehow linked to the events in our universe, but with good and evil reversed. DS9 strongly implied, however, that the MU does have it's own history that is independent from our history. Of course, DS9 made it so fuzzy that even the characters themselved didn't understand it (Rom asked some good questions about the MU).
As to Harry's question, 've always considered the Mirror Universe to be a fundamentally different universe, with its own set of quantum variations that don't include any from our universe. There was never a common timeline. Events in their universe bear a remarkable similarity to ours, though.
From what I've heard discribed about the beginning of this episode, there's no sign of the Ent E crew, meaning there's no reason to believe the timeline from our universe is connected here. Mirror Cochrane could have achieved warp flight on his own with Mirror Lily (who was probably his gimp or something, given the MU's propensity for bondage gear) and the Vulcan's showed up to steal it or enslave the planet. Fortunately for the humans, they were barbarians too and immediately slaughtered the newcomers.
posted
Hmmm... a First Contact a la The High Crusade?
And why does so many people keep refering to the Trekverse as 'our' universe? I'd say it's more liklely that the Mirror Universe would be ours, the conventional Trekverse sure isn't...
Registered: Feb 2004
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