posted
In ENT, it seems pretty clear that the Romulans know a good deal about humans, so it seems likely that the Romulans do indeed know what humans look like, despite what Spock said. But Spock really had no way of knowing that.
I'd have to go back and watch the holo-drone episode again, but did the Enterprise crew ever find out that the drones were Romulan controlled, or did it just end with them not knowing who was responsible for them?
posted
There's no hint that our heroes would have learned who controlled the drones. They speculate that the controller sits safely back at "their homeworld", but apparently they don't even try to guess which homeworld that would be. Which makes techno-sense, sort of - if the telecontrol signal were traceable, it would be jammable as well.
Yeah, ENT establishes pretty well that the Romulans know all there is to be known about humans and Vulcans. Also, our human heroes know zip about Romulans. T'Pol at least knows how their name is spelled, but she insists there has been no Vulcan contact with them; the true extent of her knowledge is unknown, as is that of other Vulcans or other humans. I guess everything is still possible in terms of future movie plot twists...
quote:Originally posted by Timo: There's no hint that our heroes would have learned who controlled the drones. They speculate that the controller sits safely back at "their homeworld", but apparently they don't even try to guess which homeworld that would be.
I'm almost positive there was a scene somewhere with Archer and T'Pol talking about the fact that some tech (power source?) on the drone was similar to that of the Romulan mines they ran into two years earlier. I don't know if they were ever positive it was the Romulans behind the drone, but it seemed like they at least suspected them.
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posted
Well, the V'Las administration was being manipulated by the Romulans, so it stands to reason that the Vulcans know a lot more about the Romulans than they ever officially admitted.
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Daniel Butler
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posted
Here's my major question...Spock explicitly states these 'primitive space vessels' allow 'no quarter' to be given and 'no captives' to be taken...but of course, in ENT, the NX-01 had a perfectly serviceable brig and empty quarters, and did, in fact, take prisoners and guests many times. Thus it would seem that 2150/60/70's ships could indeed provide quarter. Was Spock wrong *GASP*, or are records from this time somehow fragmentary? Which neither Riker nor Troi mentioned, and in fact they were able to get an entire, workable holodeck simulation out of what records there evidently are.
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Daniel Butler
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posted
*and as an addendum* I do love trying to explain away continuity errors, but at the same time they tire me. I'm not sure if I'd laugh or cry if some future show said "photon torpedoes weren't invented until after James Kirk died" or something like that...if that happened, do you think fans would unanimously refuse to accept taht series as canon?
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posted
The ships used in the war may be little more than stripped down combat vessels compared to NX-01, like comparing a defiant to a galaxy class, or a spitfire to the spruce goose. In a desperate war, high tech weapons like photon torpedoes and phasers may be dropped (how much does a cruise missile cost compared to a rocket?) for lower tech weapons, out of shear necessity. We could explain away a lot of tech changes between the first and last series based on a desperate war between the two eras, as well as warp tech improvements. (Connie saucer isn't much bigger, but of more modular construction compared to NX, and saucer can separate from exploding warp core, where as NX saucer is built around warp core.)
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quote:Originally posted by dbutler1986: [QB] Here's my major question...Spock explicitly states these 'primitive space vessels' allow 'no quarter' to be given and 'no captives' to be taken...
One definition of quater is: Mercy or clemency, especially when displayed or given to an enemy.
This definition has nothing to do with room to hold people.
The constraints of the ships in terms of power and food, and the voracity of the combatants may have made it a bloody war with little to no effort to take prisoners.
I still don't see how they could have engaged in any ground combat and the Romulans still remain relatively unknown. If they used Remans as ground troops, then wouldn't Humans (and everyone else) assume the Remans WERE Romulans?
I can hear it now... "No... we're not Romulans, we're REMANS."
Of course, the Founders remained a mystery during the early stages of the Dominion War. Vorta and Jem'Hadar used as front line combatants. Everyone knew the Founders existed, but didn't know what they looked like.
But if that was the case, then why didn't they assume the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" would be manned by Remans.
Unless the standard tactic was that Remans were the ground troops and Romulans were the "naval" officers.
Remans... stupid idea anyway... messes continuity all up.
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posted
"Everyone knew the Founders existed, but didn't know what they looked like."
Not necessarily. It was also quite possible that the Founders were in some way mythical, either from the beginning (there never were any Founders, but they got incorporated into a sort of state religion, ala, serendipitously, Romulus and Remus), or in the sense that they still exist. (Imagine some segment of American society believing that Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and the rest were still alive and still covertly running things.) As I recall we hear skepticism about the existence of the Founders from actual Dominion members.
(Which raises some questions about what the Dominion looks like, as a political entity, from the inside.)
Re Remans: They don't have a lot to recommend them as compelling characters, to be sure, but how exactly do they mess up continuity? I can't recall anyone saying "The Romulans got to their new planetary system and there was no one else there." For that matter, a lack of subject species has been a common criticism of the Romulans and Klingons, so at least in principle introducing a couple doesn't sound like a bad idea.
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Daniel Butler
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posted
Heh. Maybe crossbreeding with the Remans produced the Romulan skull ridges.
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posted
Yes, I've often wanted/speculated that the Romulans (and Klingons) would have other races in their "alliance."
But introducing these big bad Remans as footsoldiers of the Empire makes one think we'd have seen or heard about them before Nemesis.
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posted
Possibly. But then again, we've never seen an all-out war with the Romulans on-screen, and any action we did see was all ship-to-ship, hardly the sort of thing that requires footsoldiers.
I guess it just depends on whether you sit in the "in 7 billion hours of Star Trek Remens/Archer/Pikachu should have been mentioned once if they were so important" camp, or the "people do not casually discuss everything about their history during weekly one hour segments" campt.
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Andrew Strzyzewski
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posted
I searched Memory Alpha for Romulan War and found that Battle of Cheron wich was a pivotal battle in the war took place in 2160. The battle ended the Romulan War. That places the beginning of the Romulan War somewhere between 2155 and 2160.
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quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: Yes, I've often wanted/speculated that the Romulans (and Klingons) would have other races in their "alliance."
But introducing these big bad Remans as footsoldiers of the Empire makes one think we'd have seen or heard about them before Nemesis.
It's quite possible that Remans were only recently elevated from "Mines slaves" to "cannon fodder". We still have zero idea what "pressing matters" kept the Romulans occupied prior to TNG, but if it involved combat with some unknown enemy, it may have decimated the Romulan ranks (thus paving the way for Remans to become soldiers and to gain some slight level of autonomy or civil rights).
We've heard of planets within the Klingon Empire as far back as TOS- that whole "they're learning to speak klingonee" line in TWT. POssibly such worlds within an empire contribute economicly to the overall power structure, but are not allowed their own fleets (as that would lead to possible rebellion).
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