posted
Excusing the good poster Shik, Americans know more than he is assuming.
Wales [no h] is part of Britian, conquered some time ago. Canadians aren't exactly like Americans, and they don't like being assumed as such.
As for the rest of his statements--- shouldn't white hoods be left at the index page? _____
Back to topic, Earth's United government did not exist until 2113, and there were some holdouts, such as Australia which didn't join until 2150. This means that Australians need "special" explainations to appear on an Earth ship, since technically they should serve on Australian ships. At the same time there should be other countries that hold out--- otherwise it just doesn't make much sense
[ May 28, 2001: Message edited by: J ]
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Actually, J, I think Crusher was speaking hypothetically about Australia staying out of the United Earth gov't at the time of it's formation. It's been a while since I saw "Attached," though...
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Just because they sound like Americans doesn't mean they are. IMHO, it's more insulting to have characters like Chekov, whose command of English is imperfect, to say the least. If one were to assume that English will become the global language, as it seems on its way to becoming, then why shouldn't everyone on 22nd to 24th century Earth speak perfect English in addition to their native language? Moreover, why would somebody with the incredible mental capacity of a Vulcan still speak with a foreign accent like T'Pau?
Or as the story in the New York Times went, a young girl was complimented on being bilingual. She corrected that she was trilingual. The elder asked if she knew what somebody who spoke only one language was called. The response: an American.
-------------------- Never give up. Never surrender.
posted
I agree about the devaluing accent of Chekov. There's no reason why foreign persons shouldn't speak perfect English if even aliens do. Unfortunately, in a time when Earth has just been united (with the exception of Australia) and before the universal translator, we will either see only Americans or foreigners like Chekov.
-------------------- Bernd Schneider
Registered: Mar 1999
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There was an exchange student in my high school that I was rather sweet on. Her name was Paula and she was a Nederlander. And after spending a year in America, she had no trace of an accent, had adopted most of our colloquialisms, and said shortly before her return to Europe that she was having trouble remembering how to speak Dutch.
The point of an accent showing an imperfect mastery of a different tongue is well-taken. I don't consider the lack of an accent to definitely imply a native-English-speaker, on Trek or in Reality-Land. And all that considered, let's look at those characters who do have some trace of an accent.
Captain Alexander of the Saratoga (TVH), Fleet Admiral Shanthi, and even Uhura all have a noticable lilt to their voices, which I attribute to African heritage -- and indeed, in background and fandom material, Uhura is said to be from "The United States of Africa".
The Captain of the Yorktown (TVH) has a noticable Indian accent, but I attribute that to fatigue and thinning air.
That was also a good rundown of non-WASP characters up there, to which I would also add:
Sonya Gomez Ayala Chakotay Jean-Luc Picard (despite being portrayed by a British actor) Marlena Moreau Nagata (from "Trials and Tribble-ations") T'su Sergey Rozhenko (he WAS in Starfleet, remember?)
I'm tired now, so I'm not going to try to remember any more...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
posted
And we knew exactly what he meant. (I should point out that the orthography in question represented a bilablial approximant long before it became a labiodental fricative in some germanic languages.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Uh, it was Picard that said Australia didn't join till 2150 [at least this is what my chrono says, though I haven't seen TNG in at least two years so I'm not sure].
Beyond that, I think we should leave a few countries out besides Australia. Many of the Oriental nations would be suffering from the postatomic horror court systems just 20 years earlier. I think it would be a good idea to keep most of them out of the Earth Gov for the first few years. The Middle Eastern and Central Asian countries were also hard hit by this period, they might not be organized enough to join until later.
All in all, the Europeon Hermogeny and most the countries in the Americas might be the only areas that join as soon as Earth Gov is formed. I can't think of anything with the African nations at the moment either... except maybe those in the extreme north-east for the same reason the Central Asian countries should not be in, they are probably not organized enough after the conflict.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
From what I can recall of "Attached," Picard and Crusher are having a conversation, discussing the implications of a nonunited planet joining the Federation. Crusher says something to the effect of "Suppose one of the old nation-states on Earth, say, Australia, didn't join the United Earth government in 2113." But if the Chronology differs, then perhaps my memory is faulty.
On other parts of Earth not joining: I'm not sure. Considering ST:FC says that poverty, disease etc. will be pretty much gone by the 2110s, I'd seriously question the idea that Africa or Asia would somehow be too "primitive" to join a United Earth gov't in 2113.
And in response to the discussion above: what exactly is unaccented English? I mean, Trek's most famous Frenchman apparently learned to speak English with a Yorkshire accent. Who's to say the slight lilt we hear in Uhura or Shanthi isn't newscaster-grade English in parts of Africa? Is everyone who doesn't sound like an American somehow screwing up the language?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
posted
We may have known what Chekov meant, but why couldn't he say what he meant? Do you really think he's so stupid he can't use the proper phoneme? I'm just an ignorant American, but I even I know enough to be able to properly pronounce Werner von Braun, karaoke, Mauna Kea, vino bianco, joyeux no�l, Thessaloniki and La Jolla, among other foreign words. Not to mention several dialectic variations of English. If I can do that, why can't a graduate of Starfleet Academy get one simple sound right?
-------------------- Never give up. Never surrender.
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
You're missing the point. I never claimed to be a polyglot. But I do know that the American pronunciations are incorrect. Certainly not "werner vawn brawn," which has six phonetic errors to my American ear and probably more to the German ear. The point is that Chekov should know better, if he's as smart as he's supposed to be. If you immersed me in German society, I can almost guarantee you my passable fricatives would become quite good within weeks or months, even if nobody will ever mistake me for a native. And yet Chekov, spending decades among anglophones, still can't manage a simple, proper V? That's insulting to intelligent Russians everywhere. I've known some Russian immigrants, and not a single one of them had that problem.
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