Centered at (4850.1,-24490.95) Radius of 3133.56624
Romulan Star Empire
Centered at (3759.0525,-18362.53) Radius of 3091.215559
Cardassian Union
Centered at (-8687.571,-21050.71) Radius of 2842.80978
Dominion
Centered at (-28331.43,33009.745) Radius of 5281.005803
Borg Collective
Centered at (14846.555,39855.53) Radius of 4750
Krenim Imperium
Centered at (19807.436,25266.614) Radius of 8205.069238
Void
Centered at (13278.829,33271.083) Radius of 1250
Malon
Centered at (-4969.758,21003.346) Radius of 14910.87896
Ankari
Centered at (12076.097,6632.5724) Radius of 5000
------------------ "The only good thing about this film is the edible chocolate roaches they gave out. Mmm, mmm... Wait a minute, edible roaches don't crawl. Edible roaches don't crawl!"
- Jay Sherman, The Critic.
[This message has been edited by Krenim (edited February 20, 2001).]
Those sizes seem to be too large to me. I was proceeding on a premise that the UFP - while not spherical - was only on the order of 100+ ly across - and the local empires/territories on the same order.
------------------ Faster than light - no left or right.
posted
Well, everything's a matter of interpretation. I go with the 8000 ly diameter given in ST:FC, since its the only given canon size given. Yes, I know this makes the idea that you can get from the edge of the Federation to Earth in the space of an episode or movie rediculous, but what's done is done.
Besides, I'm not asking you to agree with my calculations, I just wanted to see what they would look like in 3D. Having only MS Paint to work with, my maps never look anywhere as good as yours.
------------------ "The only good thing about this film is the edible chocolate roaches they gave out. Mmm, mmm... Wait a minute, edible roaches don't crawl. Edible roaches don't crawl!"
posted
If memory serves, the e-mail link is gone because someone a while back was using them to spam members.
I went hunting for the explanations behind my parametric equations, but oddly enough, I can't seem to find them. However, I've been meaning to revise the equations again, so as I'm doing it, I'll document everything so anyone who's interested can take a look. That might not be for a while, though, because college is keeping me rather busy.
By the way, does anyone know how thick the galaxy is? I'm going to need to know for the next set of revisions.
------------------ "The only good thing about this film is the edible chocolate roaches they gave out. Mmm, mmm... Wait a minute, edible roaches don't crawl. Edible roaches don't crawl!"
I'm the person you were searching. The map you're referring to, the Map of Local Space, has been created by me about a year ago. Please don't forget to include a copyright note when using my map as a basis for your own. The real stars information I put together on my set may be "public stuff", but the positions and arrangement of all ficitious elements and borders have been thought up by me. OTOH, you can contact me if you have questions concerning the map or my cartography theories.
posted
Dimensionkeeper (Chris): Thanks I very much liked the use of color in your map. Are you the person responsible for the site "Star Trek Dimension"? Actually, I have not yet decided which of the many Federation-space mapping systems I will be using for my close-up view - I picked this one simply to show how easy it is to display a 3d version of a starmap's territories.
Krenim: See below. By the way, have you given any thought to the fact that (as Dimensionkeeper has grasped), the Federation is not a perfectly round territory (a disc in your representation)? Even with constant exploration, there would be "dents" where the UFP-explored territory encountered other empires which refused them entry. Also, not all systems within the UFP-explored volume are members - in fact, a system has to work pretty darn hard to qualify as a member (as opposed to a protectorate). This in contrast to the systems within the empires and union, which grab every system within their sphere of influence as a matter of course. Therefore, although the other territories would be a homogenous color, the UFP's exploration volume would not represent the Federation itself. In fact, there could well be non-member star empires made up of dozens of systems "engulfed" (fully-enclosed) by the UFP's sphere of exploration/influence.
TSN: Thank you for that easy-to-grasp representation.
Anyone: Is there a consensus regarding which (if any) map(s) are either canon [too much to hope for] or at least fan-generally-accepted? The only one I'm sure that I won't be using is Franz Josef's from the TOS Tech Manual - I don't know how he came up with his dimensions - ouji board? I would like a consensus before beginning to plot the various borders/systems/territories.
------------------ Faster than light - no left or right.
posted
Too true. The Federation probably looks more like Swiss cheese than the empires around it, with independent warp-capable worlds and pre-warp civilizations no doubt sprinkled throughout. As I said, these equations were created for the purpose of being able to create nice quick Trek maps using graphing calculators, math programs, etc. By the way, here's an interesting tidbit: In the ST:TNG Companion, it mentions that the writer's bible said something like 4% of the galaxy had been explored in Kirk's time and 19% by Picard's time. Or something like that, I don't have it with me right now. I wasn't expecting a big cartography debate.
As for canon and fan maps... That's a nasty one. Chris/DimensionKeeper touched on a bit of this on his excellent site, so I'll paraphrase:
Canon maps tend to, for the most part, stink. The map shown in TNG's "The Chase" showed a great deal of the galaxy, with Galen wanting to take a shuttle all the way across the better part of a quadrant. There was a map in VOY's "Lifeline," but if you'll notice, when they zoomed in on Voyager, it was in the Beta Quadrant. The map in the DS9TM continues to perpetuate the myth that Earth is out on the edge of the galaxy, when its actually less than halfway out. I only use info from "canon" maps when it doesn't contradict known scientific fact and onscreen dialogue.
Fan maps tend to be a heck of a lot better, but with a lot of contradicting info, there's a lot of variety inbetween them. Some have an 8000 ly diameter Federation that goes with what was said in ST:FC, some go with a smaller Federation that meshes more with the Federation's warp capabilities. Some go with an initial distance of 70,000 ly for Voyager's trip, some go with the 75,000 ly. Other things people just have to take educated guesses at, like the size of the Dominion.
Basically, when putting together my equations the order of importance I put on info is:
And its good to see you back, Chris/DimensionKeeper. I had your site on my Favorites list for quite a while, until I thought the site was dead. It's good to see it updated again. I may just re-add it to my list.
------------------ "The only good thing about this film is the edible chocolate roaches they gave out. Mmm, mmm... Wait a minute, edible roaches don't crawl. Edible roaches don't crawl!"
posted
Nice to see Christen here too (you should check your thread at trekrpg.net thought ).
As for canon maps? er ar.. The basic layout from the encycopedia is a good start, added by details of real stars associated with trek stars and soon enough you get a basic layout.
Christen: While using Hipparchus data is all well an good, what about Deneb's multiple refs in TOS. At 3227 ly you need a Chi factor to warp (STMAPS) to get that kinda distance.
Most maps that trek even pays attention too would be Gliese 2 for TOS and Probably some v. 3 for later incarnations. Ie. Deneb at anywhere from 1200-1600 ly and becoming the spinward border star of the federation. Something they must have supassed now byt DS9.
As well an interesting idea came up about Deneb being in the cardassion area, since Encounter at Farpoint would have been just after/ending of the war. And thus a big exploration push behind cardassion space.
Thus, with a decent modifier to warp and some inspiration from the STMAPS then DS9 could be around 1000 ly spin/core of Sol. And the original 480 pc dia of the STMAPS for fed space could be the TNG/DS9 coreworlds and thus DS9 is just 50.3 ly beyound this or SB375 is depending on wording from the DS9 TM.
Paintshop Corel hell even Publisher for some stuff.
Most of the Federation would be Alpha, if you take a large fed (8000ly:canon) and Canopus as the most trailing star of the federation at around 1100 ly then the federation runs into the rommies and klingons at 1100 ly from Sol.
Obviously parts of both empires are closer. The 'standard' part of the RNZ would be around the 400 ly in 2d; closer in 3d? to explain the shows or just use a warp modifier?
Technophyle:Height of the galaxy in our area is around 1000 ly with roughly 550 below us and 450 above us.
Krenim: I think the TNG figure for explored space was around 11-12%.
I guess it all comes down to big or small federation?
Too big and you need a modify (cochrane factor) to the warp equation as a variable of matter density.
Too small and the big stars of TOS Antares, Deneb and Rigel become to far away to be colonized to be exceptable.
8000 ly is canon but in what dimensions? Even if you took a rough line from Deneb to Rigel then its app. 4200ly or about half that distance.
The more commononly canon associated maps go for a large federation aswell.
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