posted
Just my $0.02 on the ruminations about the differing ideas for a model corresponding to this ship class.
Pros
1. The original script for �Emissary� contained this line: Sisko: �Sir, Admiral Hanson has deployed the Gage, the Kyushu and the Melbourne.� Robert Legato�s unused Wolf 359 footage undoubtedly contained a model of the first ship. 2. In the names list for characters, places, ships, etc. for lawsuit-avoidance purposes, there is this line: �The Gage � We find no pertinent listing for a warship with this exact name. There are other merchant and pleasure ships with this name.� Just the fact that it is mentioned there presupposes that the ship played a prominent part in the lost footage. Also the fact that it is mentioned as being a warship presupposes that a real studio model (either built with damage or damaged later) was made. 3. The T�Pau is not mentioned in the Magazine, the Fact Files, or its Encyclopedia entry as being Apollo class. 4. The Apollo class is a Starfleet vessel class, and Starfleet most likely does not use Vulcan ships. 5. The T�Pau looks nothing like a Starfleet ship. 6. Why would an alien ship have a class name taken from a Greek god?
Conclusion: The Apollo class is a Starfleet warship. There is a design on the internet which shows the Apollo class to be a �Nebularized� version of the Ambassador class. Its artist claims that it is the canon design. Perhaps this person had some inside information about the unused footage? The real model however, if one was actually built, remains a mystery.
Cons
1. Unfortunately, none of the above footage possibly showing the Gage was ever shown, so none of it can be considered canon. 2. The T�Pau is mentioned in the Encyclopedia ship list as Apollo class, perhaps because several other ships with registries of 1XXXX are Apollo class ships. 3. Another ship similar to the T�Pau was seen docked at DS9. It was classified as a Vulcan freighter. The Odin, also a freighter, had the registry number NGL-12535, which is only two numbers away from the Apollo class Clement, NCC-12537. This could be taken to mean that the Odin was also Apollo class, and as the ship was a freighter, it can be presupposed that the class is a freighter of Vulcan design.
Conclusion: The Apollo class is a Vulcan freighter.
------------------ Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?" Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory." Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!" Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
posted
You know... that's a good question. Because wasn't that "mystery compenent" the Enterprise was tracking down supposed to be the T'Pau's navigational deflector? The ship can't fly without that!
That being said, Sela did claim that the Romulans had stolen three Vulcan ships for the journey from Romulus to Vulcan.
As for the Encyclopedia... I checked my (very old) first edition copy, and would you believe that it doesn't classify the T'Pau as "Apollo Class"? That only shows up in the second edition, for some reason.
posted
The bulk of the circumstantial evidents points to the T'Pau being an unseen member of the Apollo class, but that the three Vulcan ships actually SEEN in "Unification" are not -- and that none of them is the T'Pau.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
>The bulk of the circumstantial evidents points to the T'Pau being an unseen member of the Apollo class, but that >the three Vulcan ships actually SEEN in "Unification" are not -- and that none of them is the T'Pau.
But the T'Pau is a *Vulcan ship* and therefore is most likely one of the ones used by the Romulans. Perhaps they just discarded the nav deflector because it was useless or something.
posted
Here one is again tempted to review the logic of the Romulan ploy. Why did they need Vulcan ships?
Did they want to pretend to be Vulcans? If so, they were making a poor show of it. They were quite obviously arriving from Romulan space, aboard ships that either did not exist in Vulcan registry books (if they were cobbled together from spare parts) or had been retired by real Vulcans a long time ago (if these were ships stolen from junkyards).
Did they pretend to be peaceful Romulans? There was some mention of them posing as an olive-branch envoy. But why would they have to use pseudo-Vulcan ships for such a mission? Why not a Warbird, with its guns powered down? Or a Romulan freighter?
Or did they pretend to be different things to different people? Perhaps they faked a Vulcan identity for casual Starfleet patrols and other over-curious bystanders, while explained to their misguided allies on Vulcan that they were on a peace mission.
In no case does the deal with the T'Pau come any clearer. Apparently, it was stolen piecemeal, and some of the parts never arrived since the Ferengi crashed on that moon. Romulans couldn't have been using the ship under the name T'Pau anyway, since the ship of that name was stolen property. Did they mix'n'match parts of all Vulcan ships they could get their hands on, to create three fake vessels which would pose as Vulcan ships "recently gone mysteriously missing but now miracuously found intact", while the actual three Vulcan vessels had been destroyed by the Romulans some time prior?
Or had the Romulans perhaps captured three Vulcan ships recently, for use in their plot, but one ship had been damaged in the capturing process and was missing some crucial spares, which then had to be stolen from the T'Pau in a last-minute modification to the original plan?
The Romulan plot is muddled at best, and we'd definitely need exact transcripts of the dialogue to find out who believed what about which part of the plan...
posted
Timo: Some good points in your last post. The whole just doesn't make sense. If the Warbird that destroyed the three Vulcan ships had already crossed the Neutral Zone without being detected, why didn't they just send a few Warbirds or even a single Warbird which would have been able to accommodate much more troups than the small freighters? The only reason could be that Vulcan or the inner Federation worlds are surrounded by a detection grid and that inconspicuous ships were needed to come close to Vulcan. But then again, the detection grid had been developed only a few episodes ago. Before that time the Romulans, with their superior cloaking technology, could have occupied Vulcan any time.
The other question, whether the T'Pau is one of the three ships or not, is pretty clear to me. The Fact Files explicitly call the ship "T'Pau" (without any mention of Apollo class), and I know they never make up any ship names or other information of the definite type. Considering that the people who make the Fact Files rely on the Encyclopedia (98%) and on insider information (2%), the name "T'Pau" is probably a hint that was conveyed to the artist together with a photo of the ship. I don't think that they watched the episode and drew conclusions exceeding what is obviously stated there.
The other reason why I think that the T'Pau, even if she's not among the three ships, looks like that is the compatibility. Agreed, they scavenged the Tripoli too, but they mainly relied on Vulcan designs of which at least three are identical. If they had a forth ship, namely the T'Pau, to supply spare parts, it would be most likely of the same type.
------------------ "Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities." Ex Astris Scientia
posted
The above logic seems flawless. Some wiggling room might still be left if we say that the persons who designed the Vulcan ship (Sternbach & Jein in cahoots) really thought they were designing the T'Pau while the writers of the episode (??) did not intend the model to represent the T'Pau at all. Then the modelmakers would be relaying false information to the FF people, in good faith.
As for why not invade with Warbirds alone... Perhaps the Federation already possessed enough detection capability to spot cloakships at close ranges, and was able to defend its core worlds, even though a tachyon net was required to create an effective blockade in deep space. Then the Romulans would have to utilize an uncloaked ship that would be allowed to penetrate to Vulcan, and would create so much "noise" that it would mask the armada of cloaked vessels hiding behind it.
T'Pau NSP-17938 Apollo Ship of Vulcan registry; decommissioned 2364 "Unification, Part I" (TNG)
From The Star Trek Encyclopedia, a Reference Guide to the Future, Updated and Expanded Edition p. 475. So, the encyclopedia does say the T'Pau was Apollo-class.
------------------ "As part of Mr. Lee's good neighbor policy, all Rat Things are programmed never to break the sound barrier in a populated area. But Fido's in too much of a hurry to worry about the good neighbor policy. Jack the sound barrier. Bring the noise." -Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash