alright currently starfleet employs three typse of rifles that we have seen...they probably use alot more but we'll never know.
the producers probably just got carried away and wanted a different rifle per ship per series.
so the question is is there a difference between these rifles... pulse over beam use to be the question until we saw that each rife can probably fire both pulse and beam. which is better and for what kinda combat.
sure in current warfare, many typse of rifles and machine guns and submachine guns are in use...but they are vastly different:rifle vs machine gun-unlike the trek rifles which yeild little differences....plus one goverment usualy only distribute and train their troops with one type of rifle. special force probably have more luxury in recieving rilfes of different make for their mission or their comfort.
plus one other thing is why broad beam fire isn't seen more...? powerloss or range?
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[This message has been edited by TheF0rce (edited May 06, 2001).]
posted
The pulse rifles are probably a explosive-like weapon designed for enemies wih armor. The normal phaser rifles are for general infantry use. The old rifles are common because they were probably in production for over 10 years therefore more produced than the First Contact rifles. Ok since Voyager doesn't use these rifles but the pulse ones its safe to assume that the new phaser rifles came in wide spread use after Vayager was lost. Also the DS9: TM stated they were put on Sovereign class ships so that could mean that the rifles were in use pt only for the top of the line ships like the Enterprise-E.
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posted
Actually, the FC rifles were in service prior to "Caretaker," as Voyager does have some onboard, and they were seen in a few episodes, most notably "Macrovirus." But evidently, they've got more of the white plasticky "Kathygun" type onboard than the others, and none of the TNG type, as far as we know.
I've wondered if the "Kathygun" is in fact a type-2 phaser rifle. (Assuming phaser types have to with emitter crystal size or firepower or something and not that type-2 definitively equals hand phaser and type-3 equals rifle) It doesn't look as hard core as the FC rifles. ------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited May 06, 2001).]
posted
Perhaps there is an advantage offered by the FC rifles over the "standard" TNG/DS9 ones, but not one of output power? We have seen that even in an all-out war in DS9, phasers seldom fire at high enough power settings to vaporize the target - while we also know that even the puny type 1 phaser has always had enough oomph to vaporize its target completely if such a setting is chosen, and type 2 can reputedly blast apart buildings. So it would make no sense to build any weapon more powerful than that.
If the FC gun was a "squad fire support weapon" analogous to a machine gun, then its role could be one of covering a wider range of targets, at longer ranges. In close combat, the "assault rifle" style TNG/DS9 rifles are okay, but at extreme ranges, one needs extra targeting aids and other finesses that are only available in the FC rifle - thus, Picard chooses these for the fight at Baku, where he can expect combat in wide open spaces, and against air attacks. Note how for example Troi can fire hipshots against tiny, maneuvering drones and hit every time: there must be some sort of autotargeting in use. Note in contrast that the TNG/DS9 rifles miss a lot, even when equipped with the lamp/sight device of the FC rifles.
However, the FC rifle appears heavier, and is much clumsier to swivel and point. So naturally it would not be used unless needed, and even then only one person per squad would carry it to an infantry battle.
The weight issue would not apply to shipboard anti-Borg combat: fatigue would not be an issue at the short walking ranges, and while the rifle is very clumsy in the confines of the ship, the alternative smaller guns would lack the extra modes and options needed to fight the cyborgs.
As for why Nog would break out the heavy gear for "Empok Nor", where the sensible regular security team carried TNG/DS9 rifles... Well, Nog would simply wish to prove that he *can* carry the heavy piece.
I'm pretty sure that all the rifles can fire beams and bolts, even if the TNG/DS9 design lacks some more involved modes available to the FC design. The hand and palm phasers might lack the ability to fire bolts, though, until otherwise proven.
As for the Voyager gun... so far, it has been used in that show as the counterpart of the TNG/DS9 rifle, alongside the "squad weapon" FC design. Perhaps it's just from a different manufacturer. The technobabble in DS9 TM does not make the Voyager gun seem radically different from or more advanced than the TNG/DS9 rifle.
posted
The DS9TM mentions the Voyager rifle? I can't say I remember that...
I think the simplest explanation is somewhat akin to Timo's... the "Mind's Eye" rifle is the el cheapo that's been around since the late 2350s which does the job just fine on almost all occasions. The STFC rifle is the deluxe model that has better aiming systems and [probably] a better capacity to remodulate, but is otherwise a bit too upper crust to drag out in multiple anytime one is needed.
Some more thoughts:
"Return to Grace" made it pretty clear that the "Minds Eye" rifles were pretty spiffy things with a degree of sophistication Kira found excessive. Dialogue seemed to suggest that they had some pretty funky auto-aiming abilities. While Starfleet tech has been time and again shown to be above-par in the Alpha Quadrant, if the "Minds Eye" rifle is hugely more sophisticated than a Cardassian rifle, wouldn't a leap to a considerably more sophisticated rifle (the ST:FC) be really disproportionate vis a vis balance of technology in the quadrant?
In ST:FC the rifles made a noise similar to a camera flash discharging whenever the sight was lined up with something, presumably an effort by the sound effects guys to show that these things did indeed have a targeting system. Never noticed anything similar on the TV shows or Insurrection.
What exactly does the term "compression" in "compression phaser rifle" mean? The DS9TM does a standard technobabble brushover of the difference, but what exactly does "compression" entail? A narrow, more concentrated beam? A setup in the firing chamber that somehow facilitates the firing of phaser bolts? Presumably, this compression ability sets the STFC and "Caretaker" rifles apart from the "Minds Eye" rifles, but how exactly?
------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
posted
To smooth out the tech differences, one could say that each race has a standard "assault rifle" and an up-teched "squad weapon", and the difference between a Cardassian and a Fed "squad weapon" is about the same as the difference between a Cardassian and a Fed "assault rifle". We just never see the Cardassian M-60 in action because we never see Cardassian infantry in battle.
The DS9 TM speaks of type-3, type 3a and type-3b rifles. Either 3a or 3b was the Voyager rifle, by the written description, but an incorrectly labeled picture of the FC rifle accompanied this part of the text.
"Compression" is probably intended to refer to packing more punch in a given shot, but it's not clearly defined. Canonically, it has only been applied to the Voyager rifles, in "Caretaker", AFAIK.
Perhaps "compression" guns are actually of lower performance than the other types, which is why Janeway uses the term in "Caretaker": she specifies that it's these "standard" rifles that she wants broken out, not the "heavy" FC guns the ship also carried.
posted
Compression rifles may well do what modern laser weapons technicians are attempting to do. (Strategic Defense Initiative).
For a given strength of dischagre, instead of allowing to shot to emit as a beam for 5 seconds, the same amount of energy is dischanged as a pulse taking up 1/4 of a second. Instead of heating the target evenly for the 5 second duration, the energy arrives as an explosive punch.
The idea as far as missile defense was described as akin to attaching a stick of dynamite to the outside of a missile body. The explosive effect would be totally different to regular phasers - no disrupt of dematerialize effect - just blast damage.
------------------ Faster than light - no left or right.
posted
Actually, I think 3a and 3b refer to each of the two different-barrelled versions of the ST:FC rifles. The DS9TM text implies that there's the attachment of a technothingamajig differentiates the things, which presumably is in reference to the metal framing around the barrel on one version of the FC rifle that is absent on the other.
------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
posted
This is possible - but the reference to the 3b rifle being distributed to "certain frontline starships" seemed an obvious in-joke by Sternbach, who was VERY involved with a certain frontline starship at the time.
But the reference would still hold true if the "split resonator head" thing in the book referred to the alternate FC rifle, as you say. We did see the round-barreled 3a rifle in use by Nog in "Empok Nor", and thus not aboard a "frontline starship" - but we never saw the square-barreled version outside E-E.
Then again, calling the round muzzle "3a" and the boxy one "3b" will make it more difficult to explain why 3b can transform into 3a and back in the middle of a battle, as it did in "First Contact"! To solve that discrepancy, I like to believe that the "split resonator head" is a detachable device. Worf's and Picard's security teams would nervously fiddle with the device, installing and de-installing it on their rifle muzzles again and again as they approached the Borg, and pretending that they were doing it for tactically viable reasons (say, the resonator head is good for shots along long corridors, but better removed when entering a maze of short corridors).
posted
Of course, the counterpoint is that the Voyager rifle does indeed have a split barrel.
I'm a little annoyed that the rifles have never been given proper model names. Considering several different Type-III rifles exist, I'd put very good money on Starfleet having individual designations beyond 3a or 3b. Why can't we have the PR-47 and the PR-51?
------------------ "And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking." -DT on arguing with Omega, April 30
posted
I'm all for having model names like that - but correspondingly, there shouldn't be a differentiation between types 3, 3a and 3b. They should all be regarded as "type 3", with the finer points of differentiation kept separate from the "type" system.
What weapons have carried type names so far? Some alien guns, like Varon-T disruptor, or the Breen rifle of "Business as Usual". The TR-116 of "Field of Fire". Not much else, I take it.
posted
And they said nobody'd have any use for a website about phasers. . . 8)
I'm the one who started differentiating between the two FC Rifles as Type-3a and -3b; can't remember why now, but it seemed a good idea at the time. So, shaddup, Timo!
Unfortimately it all seems to come down to massive continuity errors. The way they suddenly had the Type-3a on Voyager, only to have it mysteriously vanish and never be seen again (bear in mind that in the 1st season they had the late-TNG-era Type-2s, and they suddenly switched as well). The way everyone in ST:FC randomly alternates between whether they have a Type-3a or-3b. And the reason for the sole apperance of a 3a on DS9 (when Nog had one on Empok Nor)? Beats the hell out of me.
posted
well on the offchance that rifles are replicated the day before they are distributed for a mission imagine this scenario:
an ensign standing infront of a replicator being prompted what rifle he desires....
ensign:"..oh...i don't know..i feel like a 3b today..although i also favor using the pinchers on the 3a as pitchforks later...nah..computer..3b please"
an officer behind the ensign intrudes:"ensign...you do know how to use the new 3a models right?"
ensign:"of course sir...once you learn to ride a bike..you never forget.."
moments later the ensign shoots himself in the face while installing a power pack to the backward turned rifle.
[This message has been edited by TheF0rce (edited May 08, 2001).]
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