posted
I was just wondering about the overall canonicity of the Daedalus-class. . . after all, you have three ships said to have belonged to this class, the Essex (NCC-173) from TNG, and the Horizon (NCC-176) and Archon (NCC-189) from TOS. Thing is, though, I don't think any of these ships were specifically stated as being Daedali, except maybe the Essex - instead you just have this rather unimaginative design that's only ever been seen as an office model, and is believed do be a 22nd-century Starfleet design.
What other infomration can I glean from Bernd's site? Length 105m, crew 230, retired by 2196. . . I'd say that the Enterprise will have to be a pre-Daedalus design. Judging by what they've tld us about the show, this ship could even be the first of its class - an Enterprise-class starship!
I wonder is there could possibly have been a Daedalus-class USS Enterprise, registry NCC-170 or NCC171? 8)
[strict canonically]We've a class without design and a design without name. The Essex is a Daedalus. Class and NCC were mentioned by Data IIRC. And then there's a model in Sisko's office: USS Horizon NCC-176 but no class given. [/sc]
But IMO the two NCCs indicate that the Horizon is of the same class as the Essex.
[ June 15, 2001: Message edited by: Spike ]
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
posted
The Enterprise will definitely be pre-Daedalus. But once Starfleet is founded and the Daedalus commissioned I doubt you would ever find a USS Enterprise amongst its brethren, as the Constitution class, as we all know, was the first to see a ship of that name. Strange really, when you consider how 'classic' a name like Enterprise is for a ship that they'd wait something like eighty years to name a ship 'Enterprise'.
The only other, albeit implausible explanation is that Archer's non-Federation ship Enterprise continued to be in active service (in a non-Starfleet capacity) for some time after the Federation formed, and they held off naming a new ship Enterprise ro avoid confusion until such a time Archer's Enterprise was destroyed or scrapped.
But nah, I don't really like my own theory there.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
Here's another thought: I always assumed that the Daedalus class starships were the first Federation starships, and the first starships to utilize the primary-secondary hull structure that defined later starships. All fine & dandy, but since the Daedalus primary hull is spherical, I thought the flatter saucer hulls were a later evolutionary design step. However, if the Pre-E will have a saucer section to make it look more like Kirk's ship, then this theory goes down the drain.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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The Olympic-class seen in "All Good Things" [TNG] indicates that there may be advantages to a spherical primary hull, irrespective of the understanding of warp field dynamics.
Maybe its the simple maximized volume/minimized surface; if the Daedalus class were, say, the first to introduce shield projected from a surface grid then simple spherical and cylindrical components would be an advantage.
Now I wonder how shields will be presented in Enterprise - as bubbles, skins, or something else?
What's interesting is that the "high-tech" ablative armour (DS9's Defiant) and the regenerative armour seen in "Endgame" [VOY] seem (to me) like much lower technology defenses than projected energy shields. I wonder if the E-1 will have something similar (but 200-years more primitive), and TPTB were just trying out the effect?
posted
I like Masao's theory in that the Daedali were made before the UFP was founded and then they were put into Starfleet service.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
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Zor Prime
Ex-Member
posted
That's a load of shite, of course the Horizen wasn't referred to as Daedelus class, because that class wasn't thought up until wayy after TOS.
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posted
I think the ideas that Essex et al are Daedalus class ships and that those desktop models represent Daedalus ships are reasonable conjectures/assumptions. But does anybody really like that design? I think we're very lucky that Enterprise evolved into something much better. The basic shapes are pretty dull and that neck would snap with one sharp turn.
The new old Enterprise will likely precede Daedalus, but by how much depends on when the new shows is set (2100s or 2150s) Personally, I hope they stay as far away from that design as possible.
-------------------- When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
I don't think the Daedalus has to represent ALL Starfleet's ships from the early days of the Federation. We can suspect that the Daeadalus Class was a science vessel or surveyor, much like the later Oberth and Nova classes, and was one of perhaps 10 different class ships first launched in 2161, ships which would cover all the requirements of a fledgling fleet, encompassing designations such as Explorers, Cruisers, Frigates, Hospital ships, Tansporters, Freighters and Surveyors - like Daedalus. Some of the other larger Cruisers, for example, from this time period may have looked significantly different, but indeed perhaps corresponding to a similar design theme.
If we surmise that the other member races, such as Tellarites and Vulcans and so forth, contributed to the early design and implementation of such starships they may have done so to satisfy functionality, rather than aesthetics. Yeh, Daedalus doesn't inspire, but it has a basic, simple primary hull, spherically shaped, a connector to a cylindrical secondary hull, possibly a shuttle bay at the back, with basic impulse, and two nacelles in a similar configuration to Cochrane's from a century earlier. If you look at the Constitution class, that's just as basic, with a saucer replacing a sphere.
I would hope too that the early Federation ships didn't employ a saucer, as that would logically be a later evolution of design, not becoming prevalent till at least the early 23rd century.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
Fodder for thought: If Nat Archer's ship was the first of her class to be built, this would nicely explain why the name "Enterprise" would suffer a moratorium of some eighty years, and why it wouldn't be given to the pathfinder vessels of later starship classes, either.
If Archer's ship establishes an "Enterprise class" of space vessels for the mid-22nd century, then we can assume that even if this specific vessel is destroyed at some point of the series, her sister ships will survive until past the founding of the UFP. Undoubtedly, some of the sister ships will be adopted by the newly founded Starfleet and given NCC registries. And arguably, they will retain the "Enterprise class" designation.
Now, imagine the confusion generated if a Daedalus class vessel were to be named USS Enterprise. There would be the theoretical danger of her being mistaken for an Enterprise class vessel, a grave mistake since vessels of that class would surely be much more primitive than the Daedali, and thus erroneous command decisions might be based on this false assumption of capabilities.
Granted, not many would make silly mistakes like this - but since the founding of Starfleet would be a "fresh start" for everybody involved, I'm sure there would be a general spirit of everybody trying to build the best possible organization they could, and working every possible improvement into the system. Even obscure details would be taken care of, in a way that would never be possible in a continuous-history, tradition-plagued organization. And ensuring that there is no overlap between Enterprise class and USS Enterprise would be just such an obscure detail people would want to get right, now that they could. It would be an affordable decision, unlike, say, the scrapping of all Enterprise class vessels in favor of more modern designs.
Even in the later centuries, people might wish to fondly remember the Enterprise class of bygone days and not give the name Enterprise to any first-of-her-class vessel. (I think, though, that the current avoidance of "NX-1701" stems more from the fact that prototypes generally tend to be substandard and Starfleet doesn't want any ship named Enterprise to be substandard...)
posted
Using the terminology of the first series, the early starships Archon and Horizon were the most advanced ships of their period. They served the same functions as the Enterprise-type starships of a hundred years later-exploring territories, initiating first contact, policing their area of space, and defending that area of space from invaders.
The design of the Daedalus Class is what I would expect of a ship from the early to mid 23rd century. I would think that a ship that was the first type for an organization would have both the aesthetic style of previous Earth ships and a new generation of starship architects. This Daedalus Class is too sophisticated a design for the early starships.
This is understandable given the source material for this design. This ship design is one initially conceived for the USS Enterprise of the first series.
[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
posted
Yes, Timo, I sort of agree about the continuation of the Enterprise-type class ship going perhaps into the 23rd century, hence the reason why no other ships were named Enterprise - for I myself said this in my post further up the page, hehehe.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
It also seems possible that this Enterprise will be the only ship of her kind, which, I suppose, would still make her an Enterprise class ship, but not in the sense that there will be other ships of the same design around. Maybe.
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