posted
In an earlier thread, I referred to fueling stations on the port wall on the hangar bay.
In this thread, I would like to hear your opinions on some oddities of the hangar bay.
1.) The hangar bay has two elevators. These elevators are in the aft walls of the large starboard and port alcoves. Do the elevators go up and down, or only down? And if they go up, they go to the observation deck, and if they go down, they go where?
2.) On the wall of the large alcoves, there is a warning sign: "Warning: Fire". This is a strange sign for I don't see a possible source of fire. So, where does the fire come from?
3.) The smaller alcoves aft of the large alcoves. What is the function of these alcoves?
4.) In "The Omega Glory", the USS Exeter has four shuttlecrafts. If the shuttlecrafts are not in the hanger bay, are they parked in the deck beneath and how are they parked there? And how does one bring the shuttlecraft up to the hangar deck?
5.) What is the appearance of the bow wall of the hangar deck?
Thank you.
[ June 24, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
posted
Targetemployee, I'm going to assume that you're talking about the original Enterprise's shuttlebay from the The Original Series. If this isn't what you're asking about, let me know!
quote:The hangar bay has two elevators. These elevators are in the aft walls of the large starboard and port alcoves. Do the elevators go up and down, or only down? And if they go up, they go to the observation deck, and if they go down, they go where?
I bet these elevators go up and down. It goes up to the observation deck that runs along the upper sides of the bay. They go down to what I call the hangar deck, but what you'd probably call the shuttle storage bay since you refer to the shuttlebay as the hangar deck. Regardless, there's enough room in the tail for another deck to be under the bay. All schematics I've seen of the original Enterprise show that as being a large room where the shuttles are stored until needed.
quote:On the wall of the large alcoves, there is a warning sign: "Warning: Fire". This is a strange sign for I don't see a possible source of fire. So, where does the fire come from?
I've never seen this before. I know the TNG shuttlebays have a sign saying "Danger: Variable Gravity Area." This could be related to the fueling stations in the bay. Hydrogen is combustible.
quote:The smaller alcoves aft of the large alcoves. What is the function of these alcoves?
I've no idea. I'll dig out Franz Joseph's Technical Manual tomorrow to see what he says those smaller alcoves are for.
quote:In "The Omega Glory", the USS Exeter has four shuttlecrafts. If the shuttlecrafts are not in the hanger bay, are they parked in the deck beneath and how are they parked there? And how does one bring the shuttlecraft up to the hangar deck?
I've answered part of this in the first answer. Basically, there's a lower level to the shuttlebay where the shuttles are stored until needed for a mission. Supposedly, there is a large elevator in the middle of the bay that can lift the shuttles into the bay from the storage area. I believe this is the same contraption that we've seen rotating the shuttles after they've landed.
quote:What is the appearance of the bow wall of the hangar deck?
The bow wall of the shuttlebay? Well, most of the shuttlebay is plain flat wall-surfaces. So, the bow wall would probably be the same. There might be a door or two leading into the ship or cargo bays. And, supposedly, the control booth projects out from the upper half of the wall.
[ June 24, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
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posted
I don't know how closely this matches the real TOS ship miniature or the FJ drawings, but the shuttlebay of the E-A is nicely portrayed in the ST Magazine (Bernd's Gallery pic here).
Two things of significance: the turntable is clearly too small to serve as an elevator here (although it would be just fine for the smaller TOS shuttles), and two big sliding doors are seen on the bow wall (no doubt providing parking space and possible larger elevators for the new, bigger shuttles). The continuing existence of the almost useless turntable suggests this ship is indeed a refit of a TOS-era vessel, and not a newbuild...
The fueling alcoves have these fancy multi-segmented doors (?) to them, even though there is very little space outboard of them before we hit the outer hull. Perhaps for refueling, the shuttle is supposed to be parked with its butt in this alcove, after which these segmented safety doors slide away and reveal the deuterium (and possibly antimatter) transfer machinery. After fueling, the shuttle is again turned 90 degrees and the doors are closed to seal off the volatile hydrogen and antimatter. There would be room to process even a big movie-era shuttle this way, with another shuttle parked on the other side of the bay, and perhaps up to six other shuttles, behind those bow wall doors and belowdecks.
It makes sense, sort of. Shuttle comes in, bow towards starship bow. Turns 90 degrees for fueling. Turns another 90 degrees to be ready for departure. Too bad the turntable is no help in this, since it's located in the wrong spot. Probably the shuttles have built-in antigravs for handling, or the deck crews have portable antigravs.
Also note the new turbolift location, and lack of personnel entry doors on floor level. Where were the personnel entry doors to the TOS bay? I thought there were two of them, one per side, judging by episode shots, but the bay model might not have had them.
These two scans are basically the same as the 3-D model of Enterprise-A's shuttlebay that Timo posted. However, it shows the refueling stations being closest to the shuttlebay door. Next is the smaller alcove, which just has the ladders that lead to the two control booths. Next is a mechanical trunk followed by the larger alcove (which, according to the Tech Manual is just storage space).
In response to Timo, that turntable does look too small to of use for the movie era shuttles (but Franz Joseph shows the table being further forward than the Magazine image). Those two "garage doors" would probably be lifts for the larger shuttlecrafts. I don't have it in front of me, but Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise has a wonderful still photograph of the cargo/shuttlebay complex from The Motion Picture. There, it shows that the bow wall of the shuttlebay is a partition that opens to allow shuttle access to the shuttlebay. It shows the shuttlebay and the hangar/shuttle storage deck beneath it (both were open). It appears that the shuttles rode a lift from the hangar to the shuttlebay that were in a location similar to that picture you posted. The only difference is that TMP showed two turbolifts servicing the shuttlebay; one was at the forward-port corner and the other at the forward-starboard corner.
[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
posted
I'm beginning to wonder... At first, I thought that the ST5:TFF version of the shuttlebay was slightly "compacted" by removing the long stretch of wall from between the two trapezoid-doorway "pockets", because doing the bay in full length would have been too expensive. But comparing the FJ and Magazine pictures, it seems that the bays are of equal size, and the main difference is that the wider, forward "pocket" has been moved aft in the ST5 version while the side observation balconies have been shortened.
Now I wonder why the ST5 people would do that. And I suspect it's actually FJ who was in error, and the true TOS shuttlebay looked more like the ST5 version. Any decent pics of the real TOS bay, anybody?
I'd also think Andy Probert made the TMP bay as close to the TOS version as he could (except that he opened up the area forward of the bay, just like you describe, and inserted that cavernous cargo hold). The TMP bay lacked those wall "pockets" (and had the workbee sockets instead), but I take it the observation balconies were identical to the original TOS ones?
I guess the E-A and the refitted E-nil were not all that dissimilar in the end. Who knows what sort of cargo hold there was forward of that wall we saw? Perhaps the only real differences were the workbee sockets vs. wall pockets, and the use of a fixed (and turboshafted) instead of movable/missing wall between the landing bay and the elevator/cargo hold area?
posted
That isn't REALLY what the Enterpise-A's shuttlebay looks like, is it? Because it's WAY too small to be correct. The shuttlebay doors are 8+ segments too short overall, and it isn't even a complete 180+ degree semi-circle. That means the shuttlebay depicted is about half the correct width. And where is the main control room that looks out into space?
Heh. They may have followed the plan for the original E's bay, but they didn't follow the plan of the starship they had built. The E-A's aft exterior is so completely different from the original E's.
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posted
I don't see any major differences here. The doors to the refitted ship (as seen here) do have just the eight segments the TOS doors had, four per side (even if there is a line running in the middle of each segment, making it look like two). FJ had it wrong when speaking of six segments. And the doors form enough of a semicircle to satisfy me (even if they are mounted too upright, but that would be a forced-perspective illusion...).
And the control cabin of the refit was supposed to be above the doors, looking out, right? So it wouldn't be visible to the inside of the ship anyway. Or even if it was in the E-nil refit, it need not be in the E-A, as long as the exterior stays the same (we know that the interior is different in other ways already).
As for size, well, it does look smaller than the real thing (as judged by the TOS miniature interior or the TMP pictures), but not by all that much. The original appeared four TOS shuttles wide at the doors, while the pic shows something perhaps three TOS shuttles wide.
And regarding FJ's accuracy, yes, he got the "pockets" right, but his observation balcony windows aren't any closer to the TOS reality than the Magazine refit pic version. And the "refueling system" FJ shows closest to the space doors doesn't exist in the TOS miniature - rather, there's something like that in the location shown in the Magazine, in the bigger "pockets". The turntable is closer to where FJ shows it, yet the real deck markings seem different.
posted
At least that last pic is true to the real TOS shuttlebay miniature, while the FJ drawings apparently are misleading at best.
It's a tight fit with the turntable/elevator even with the short TOS shuttle. Perhaps it's not just the turntable that is supposed to act as an elevator - perhaps it is the whole square area marked in red? Then the TOS shuttle would fit easily. And in the E-A, the black-marked square would be just BARELY big enough to take down a movie-era shuttle, even though the actual turntable area is far too small.
Hmm. I've certainly learned a lot from all these pics. What is still missing is a good view of the forward end of the TOS shuttlebay. Was that ever even constructed? The miniature would not have needed it, since the camera always shot outwards, towards the space doors, and that wall would thus always have been removed for shooting. And a real set never really existed, save for the often-seen doorway and the once-glimpsed observation balcony interior. Perhaps even the TOS ship had two large rolling doors on the forward wall, like the E-A had?
I wonder if we should include the TAS version in our ponderings. That one was virtually featureless from the inside - no balconies, no pockets, no markings, just a disproportionally large number of shuttles of at least five different types crammed in. And sometimes the space doors opened just to one side, not port and starboard... Otherwise, the ship's interiors were well drawn, and the glimpses into the innards of Engineering were fascinating. But the shuttlebay was a big disappointment.
After reading the posts, I think I have a fair idea of the arrangement of the upper three decks of the lower engineering hull.
Deck 18-Engineering ("The Enemy Within"); Observation Deck and Control Booths ("The Conscience of the King") Deck 19-Shuttle Bay ("The Galileo Seven") Deck 20-Shuttle Storage and Maintenance
The alcoves seen in the shuttle bay are flush against the skin of the hull of the starship. This leaves only one area for access from the ship-the area forward of the shuttlebay.
[ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
posted
The outboard walls of the alcoves may be flush with the outer hull, but then the inboard walls are not - so there could be doors on both sides of the shuttlebay, just forward of the wider, forward alcove and thus conveniently out of the view of the camera. Behind these doors would be longitudal corridors, with one wall flush with the outer hull and one shared with the shuttlebay. The secondary hull does get the wider, the more forward you move, and it's overall a bit wider than what FJ depicted.
Incidentally, what do you suppose those big orange things are on the E-A shuttlebay - just forward of the wider alcoves, with big square windows or viewscreens in the middle? They look like they could be doors, perhaps with upper and lower halves - to some sort of an elevator, perhaps? If they are just stretches of wall with viewscreens on them, why are they color-coded like that? This is the location where I'd imagine the doors to the TOS shuttlebay were (with possibly a third door where the E-A has one).
I seem to remember that Phil Farrand in his Nitpicker's Guide remarked on how in some episodes the door to the shuttlebay seemed to be on the port side, sometimes on the starboard one. We'd first get a look at the miniature shuttle in the miniature bay, and then when we peeked through the set door we could glimpse the shuttle mock-up and tell the location of our vantage point from the shuttle's orientation (if the bow of the miniature pointed forward, and if the mock-up was facing left, then we'd know we are on the port side). This is why I'd prefer port/stbd doors to doors mounted on the forward wall.
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