Topic: Just another small question, this time regarding the...
Amasov Prime
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...hehe, teasing titles, I hate them, but it works.
...Challenger class. Not the one that was identified, the Galaxy-kitbash, but the other one. The Constellation with the secondary-hull assembly. Only source is a very old comic book. My question: who did the illustrations? Maybe the guy who drew it can remember if he saw any model or if everything was pure fantasy. Just a very vague guess, but if someone has this comic or knows who created it, I could try to find out his email (if he has one).
On a similar topic, what exactly did we see there? Did he include anything else or did he mention the Challenger-class by name? Or something?
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I dont consider 1991 such a long time ago. Maybe I'm getting old. "Thin Ice," DC Star Trek: The Next Generation (volume 2) Annual #2. Written by MJF, drawn by Matt Haley. Haley was a new comic artist at the time, and i didnt see anything out of him till half a decade later when he did some Legion of Super Heroes stuff. Haley was a good touch for the Trek comics, especially for those of us used to seeing the utter sewage that Pablo Marcos or Peter Krause drew in the monthly version around that time (to be fair, they are good artists, just not great studies of Star Trek's 'look')..
In that issue, Haley also came up with a great design for pre TNG era cadet uniforms, showed a Belknap-class training ship and an uprated (1701 refit style) version of FASA's Larson-class, the USS Caspian NCC-5507. The ship in question was the U.S.S. Marco Polo, NCC-7219, identified as Challenger-class on a computer-display readout (probably done by the letterer, not the artist, but it could have gone either way), and then shown as a Constellation-Constitution hybrid on the page, exactly as described in our false info.
But the comic was released in late summer 1991, probably just BEFORE BoBW2 aired.. and as comics go, that means that it was several months old, the work on it being done 3 or 4 months prior (even more time, allowing for the fact that Paramount was requiring advance approval of all continuity at the time, as per the 'continuity purge' that occurred, causing Peter David to leave).. So this comic was probably being drawn before the third season ended, and well before planning was being done on even BoBW1, let alone the ship graveyard in BoBW2. And comic artists working for the trek series at that time were given some studio information, like advanced stills, etc.. especially for adaptations, but usually nothing so technical as background miscellanea.. they just got to see likeness shots of the actors ahead of episode airings. And with Haley being a newbie, doing a one shot stand alone story, he probably wasnt included in one of the DC studio tours
I think its more likely that the comic itself is the source of the erroneous description.. i.e. a fan read the first Okudapedia and saw 'Challenger-class' written for the Buran, and thought it must be the same type seen in the comic
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I thought the C/C hybrid design was also supported by statements supposedly made by the artists that worked on the models for BoBW. It turned out LATER that they were wrong, and the description was corrected.
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Amasov Prime
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So the Challenger-class was mentioned even before there was a Challenger-class on-screen? Maybe only some weeks before they did the BoBW-Challenger? Now that's really a coincidence.
If he also included a FASA-design (updated to movie-era), could this be a second FASA-ship, maybe? Probably updated, too (meaning he replaced the old TOS-nacelles and similar corrections). Anyway, his knowledge of the FASA-ships does not exclude some knowledge of official stuff. Could it be possible he talked to someone at Paramount regarding his designs (for example the new uniforms you mentioned?) and they suggested the Marco Polo?
I think that leads to another old rumor; someone once said Okuda or Sternbach or someone else did some design sketches and drawings of the ships mentioned in the first Encyclopedia, probably to be included, until they decided otherwise. Is this anything more than just a rumor, or did someone make that up? I heard it for the first time some years ago, but since then I found a reference to it from time to time.
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Its not a FASA ship. All the TOS ones that are kitbashes of enterprise are known to me, and the Constellation configuration only got one glimpse in their manuals, the TNG version before the game was cancelled, so they never had a chance to kitbash it.
I say its a coincidence, because i dont think theres anyway the comics team had advance knowledge of a ship that wasnt built yet, but accidentally used the same class name (the class names, BTW, might only have been devised by Okuda for the encyclopedia, a year after that, since they were not in any scripts or plans)
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here is the structure of the ship which appeared in the comic
[ April 07, 2002, 20:33: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
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Mike, I hate to tell you this, but "BoBW2" aired in September of 1990 -- not '91. The famous Okuda convention slideshow had made its circuit, and the resulting erroneous fan descriptions were already spreading on the BBSes, by the time the Annual was published...
--Jonah
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Amasov Prime
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How comes you are so fast with your draings? It seems you have too much time.
Anyway, I thought the upper nacelles were standard-Constellation/Constitution's, it looks strange with that bussard-collector things, IMO.
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hrm. i havent been required to take a math class in years, but i shouldnt have let that one get by me. youre right of course.
I maintain my supposition that Matt Haley was definitely not on the inside track of the publishers or the studios informations.. as a newbie artist, he probably was doing freelance work (i.e. he might never have gotten to the DC office, and he might not have even met the people he was working with on the comic.. just got a script from FedEx and then FedExed his pages to an editor and inker)
That drawing was done in about two hours time last night after i got home from the flea market and smoking with leeanne. Pot and schematicvs go together for me.. I was a little handicapped, because its the weekend and i had to use LView Pro at home (I usually use photoshop at school)
The nacelles were definitely meant to be Constellation nacelles, but the artist cut corners with the structure, making them extremely squared off.. but since in all of the drawings of the ship, the nacelles remaind consistent to that squared off look, i inferred that they were variants. Several panels showed the Bussards glowing like that and i like the look.
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Although I don't have that particular issue, I do have a scan of the Marco Polo from it. Your drawing is spot on! Would you possibly be able to do the Belknap and/or the Larson too?
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Ooh.. could you mail me the Marco Polo scan? my scanner is having USB-diarrhea.
the other ships should be no problem.. once i get home and get the comic again (im at school now)
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quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: How comes you are so fast with your draings? It seems you have too much time.
Well I would have thought that it was because he has transwarp drive - he can do everything faster than those of use with a simple warp drive. HEHE!
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Amasov Prime
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4 hours?!? *slams head on keyboard* That can't be true! *slams head again on keyboard, some kys dn't wrk an lngr* How? HOW??? *uncontrolled facial expressions continue*
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actually i didnt sit down to get started til 1:00, and finished about 4:00, then grabbed a snack before i uploaded it.
The Belknap isnt clearly seen in the comic, I'm assuming that since its a cadet training vessel, its the Decatur, which has a very different planform from other members of the Belknap class. I'll do that one if i dont fall asleep early tonight
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