quote:Originally posted by Boris: The Defiant could explore in the sense of making first contact with potentially dangerous civilizations.
You would send very small, over-gunned, under-manned, under-equipped, somewhat slow, short-ranged vessel to make first contact with "potentially" dangerous civilizations?
Going back a bit, I've given some thoughts about the Defiant's speed being limited by her SIF. If O'Brian had to take power from the phasers to boost the SIF, doesn't it mean that she's already devoting most of her power to simply maintaining warp 9.5? She's over powered for her size, but no one said she had all the power she could ever use. Besides, most ships her size probably can't get up to the 9.5 range.
The Defiant's a good ship, but she has her weaknesses. For one thing, she doesn't do well against ships that can get behind her and stay there.
No one in their right mind would send a Fleet composed of a single class of ships against the Borg. The Borg would just adapt to one ship/the whole Fleet, and wipe everyone out. Diversity is one of the keys to defeating the Borg.
The Intrepid project has already progressed for a number of years before Wolf 359. The Sovereign was designed and laid down simply to fight the Borg.
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I sorta think of the Defiant a over powered, underequipped piece of battlewagon that usually lays around space dock until it can limp over to the battlefield at warp 9 and tear its warp naccels off firing all those weapons. Nice ship visually but techincally it's a piece of junk.
[ May 03, 2002, 20:21: Message edited by: F. G. Sanford ]
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quote: You would send very small, over-gunned, under-manned, under-equipped, somewhat slow, short-ranged vessel to make first contact with "potentially" dangerous civilizations?
seems to be exactly what Starfleet did in "The Search."
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The Defiant was only ever intended to be a ship with a single purpose; to kill Borg (or at least slow them down). Any post war fleet would probably have Defiants in two main roles; perimeter action vessels patroling borders, anti-piracy missions and the like and also a mobile reserve(s) that can be activated if needed and sent to spots where superior firepower is needed.
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posted
Wasn't it the Odyssey's mission to meet the Dominion, not the Defiant originally? Of course, the Odyssey failed (after Keogh dropped his shields), but the Defiant herself was also taken down.
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They sent the Defiant because they needed something with a cloak. They wanted to avoid the Jem'Hadar/Dominion patrol, but didn't know that the Founders were the Dominion.
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I never really would send a Defiant do such missions unless she was specially equipped to do so.
There is no evidence to show that the Sovereign class was designed to fight the Borg. For all we know, the Sovereign class could be the Battleship equiviliant of the Galaxy class.
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I'm sure that Starfleet could have put the cloaking device on any ship it wanted. The Federation negotiated to get that cloak from the Romulans for the sole purpose of scouting missions in the Gamma Quadrant. They specifically chose the Defiant for the expedition into the Dominion.
Why? Because the Galaxy Class was widely regarded as the best and most powerful starship that Starfleet had to offer. Of course, the Jem'Hadar wiped the floor with the Odyssey, even if you discount the kamikaze attack.
The Defiant, on the other hand, was specifically designed for combat missions. The Borg, the Dominion... it doesn't really matter all that much. Either way, Starfleet must have anticipated the potential for weeks-long deployments and extended combat with a very powerful enemy. Clearly, they believed (or desperately hoped) that the Defiant would live up to expectations.
The Defiant's original purpose may have been to fight the Borg, but that doesn't mean that a warship can't be easily adapted to other combat situations. The Defiant has all the capabilities of a front-line cruiser: heavy on-target weaponry, strong shielding, extreme maneuverability. So it might not come in a perfect package, and it might not be able to deploy at the extreme speeds of ships like the Intrepid Class. That might limit its response times in certain scenarios, but I would hardly call it a failure or consider it useless in peacetime.
I'm going to draw on my experience in the wonderful "You're the Admiral" threads from a few months back. In Sector Beta, I had four Defiant Class ships as part of my standing sector task force. They were a bit slower than my Sovereign Class flagship or the Intrepid Class troubleshooter, but they were extremely useful for patrol purposes, and for defense. And furthermore, when the time came for an outright invasion, they were available to deliver heavy firepower against the enemy fleet. The only thing they really weren't useful for was rapid-response operations against relatively distant enemy intruders.
I'm sure that the Defiant Class could have some very good uses in the postwar Starfleet. It's hardly suited for exploration of any real duration, but it would be extremely useful for patrol and defense purposes. Station a small squadron of Defiants at a local starbase, and keep them a regular (or not-so-regular) patrol route, so at least one ship in any given area is available to respond.
And of course, Starfleet doesn't consist solely of Defiants, so any other classes of starship out there can lend their own special talents to the situation at hand, too.
Starfleet can be dynamic in organization. I see a vast variety of available options given the various types of starships that we've seen. To consider one class to be totally useless would be a very ill-considered judgement.
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quote:but didn't know that the Founders were the Dominion.
David,
They knew that the Founders ran the Dominion. They just didn't know WHO the Founders were. But they certainly knew the Jem'Hadar were the Founder's troops.
posted
U know with the Defiant being overpowered for a ship her size, but like [i'm not an engineer here so i wouldnt really know] but wouldnt a Starfleet design team have the computing power to make a computer model of the Defiant to test it in different situations? WOuldnt they have found out it was over-powered in computer simulations??
I know the Enterprise [the USN carrier] was overpowered wit 8 reactors, but that was like in the '60s (or '70s not sure).
I was just wondering about it, if any tech-savvy ppl here no the answer to my questions i'd be grateful.
Buzz
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Registered: Aug 2001
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Well, when they say the Defiant is overpowered, I assume they mean that they push the ship to its limits. So, typically, a ship her size such as the Nova doesn't require as much power output. It's possible the engineers knew that all the weapon systems on the ship combined exceed the standard limits placed on energy usage, but Starfleet wanted to squeeze in as much weaponary power before the ship would tear herself apart.
Registered: Jul 2000
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MinutiaMan -- thanks for using the four-ship groups in your sim. That's what I've been going with as the standard deployment for the Defiant class ever since "Call to Arms", when the Defiant moved into formation with the other three Defiants in that part of the fleet.
Then, two-ship elements can break off for escort duty, as with that Akira in "Message in a Bottle". I think only rarely would they be sent out solo. But that's just me projecting based on circumstantial evidence.
--Jonah
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The idea of four ship elements is directly from WW2 USN fighter formations, I can't remember what it was called but the standard formation was four aircraft which could break up into two 2 aircraft sections. It was intended that this way the pilots could support each other against the faster and more heavily armed Japanese fighters.
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