posted
[Sorry folks, Sector Gamma will have to wait until my thesis is put to bed, some time next month. But in the meantime...]
They're never gonna do it, but what if they did? The Defiant was always an experimental and extreme design, and despite the fact that she ended up doing just about everything a regular starship was supposed to do, she wasn't designed for it.
But the Dominion threat the Defiant was assigned to face doesn't exist anymore, or at least it is no longer a priority. So, let's say that Starfleet wants to replace the Defiant with a ship more suited to a modified pre-Dominion mission parameter for the station - that is, local sector defense, troubleshooting, and exploration duties. What ship would you assign to DS9? And why?
It would have to be small and relatively short-range, have a relatively small crew, but probably mount a larger capacity for science and exploration duties. In terms of firepower, it probably would not be as much a priority, or at least any more than it would be for standard Federation missions. Non-canon designs can apply, if you can link to a design online or otherwise provide specs for it.
Thoughts? Or do you think the Defiant-class is as ideally suited to DS9 as the writers of the show would have you think?
Mark
[ May 07, 2002, 16:35: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
quote: be small and relatively short-range, have a relatively small crew, but probably mount a larger capacity for science and exploration duties. In terms of firepower, it probably would not be as much a priority, or at least any more than it would be for standard Federation missions.
Off the top of my head, ships that would seem to fit this description would be:
Nova Intrepid Oberth Olympic
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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posted
It is my hope/belief that Starfleet attempts to diversify its starships in the post-Dominion War era. I think that one of the flaws of the TNG-era Starfleet was that all of its ships were both explorers and warships at the same time. Therefore, a starship could potentially either have a much greater weapons/defensive payload, or else be a much smaller platform and pack the same combat capabilities.
Think about it. The Defiant is probably one tenth the size of most starships currently in service -- certainly it's a tiny fraction of the mass of an Excelsior or a Galaxy. But as proven in "Paradise Lost," the Defiant can pack the same firepower as a heavily upgraded Excelsior.
I believe that Starfleet should implement two separate divisions: a patrol/defense force, and an explorer group. There should be little crossover as far as mission types go. An explorer would rarely be sent on patrol missions (except possibly where the ship's enhanced sensors can be useful), and a patrol ship wouldn't be sent on a five-year mission.
As such, I believe that the Defiant is probably the best patrol/defense ship that's in the Starfleet canon at this time. It packs a heavy punch, is extremely maneuverable, and has strong defenses. And at the same time, it's relatively easy to maintain with a small crew. Its only flaw is its inability to make high-warp dashes, and therefore is not useful for troubleshooting or rapid-reaction operations. But as I posted in another thread, the Defiant works quite well as a medium-range patrol ship, that is capable of handling almost any potential threat, either on its own, or as part of a patrol group.
The Defiant would probably work best where Starfleet needs to concentrate lots of firepower in a relatively small theater of operations. Take, for example, Sector Beta. (No Sector Gamma for a month? Curses!) I used my four Defiants to great effect there as short-range defensive craft; and when the time came to take the fighting to the Driians, they provided a heavy punch to take out the enemy fortifiations.
I'd keep the Defiant where it is at DS9. It's perfect as a point-defense starship for a choke point -- the wormhole. Other ships like Nova or Intrepid would be larger and more resource-intensive, and besides, I think that their capabilities would be wasted, as they're both intended for more long-range operations.
The Defiant is not a perfect ship by any means, and certainly has its own weaknesses, but it's still, as one officer put it, a "tough little ship."
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
I'm unsure about the question. Peace treaty or not, I find it hard to believe Starfleet is going to be sending anything through the wormhole for a long time. Surely the Dominion must have claimed the space the wormhole was in by now, and set up their own DS9-analogue. The station's mission, then, is unlikely to return to "neglected outpost at the edge of explored space" any time soon.
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posted
I would think the Defiant will not be the only starship stationed in the Bajoran Sector after the war. But the Defiant is suited for DS9, in terms of size, maintenance, and offesnsive capabilities. Having a Nova or even an Intrepid Class to replace the Defiant maybe feasable, but why bother? They would take up the pylon space intended for other ships that pass by DS9.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
i think that the defiant continues to fulfill its intended and unintended mission quite well, and the line would continue. there is no reason to replace it.
posted
I can't completely agree with that last comment. The two identifiable missions of the Defiant were to perform aggressive reconaissance of the Gamma quadrant, and later to participate in fleet action against the Dominion. In both, the Defiant excelled - but I find it hard to believe either of these missions would survive past "WYLB".
For defending the station or the sector, any other ship would be preferable - the Defiant never successfully engaged in any defensive action during her career. For ferrying people around, like the ship did much of the time, a faster and more comfortable ship would be preferred. And for exploration (of Alpha or Gamma), I'd send out somebody who has never even heard of DS9. The mission profile of our DS9 heroes should not include exploration.
There still is one established mission of our heroes where the Defiant would be very useful. Patrolling local traffic requires something faster and more muscular than the runabouts, as seen in several episodes. A Defiant might be overkill, but if Starfleet can afford to give one to the station...
The heroes also minded the Bajoran colonies often enough (since Bajor apparently lacked an effective troubleshooting fleet of its own). Some sort of a transport vessel with disaster relief factilites could also be given to the heroes for that task. If a colony was raided by the baddies, the armed patrol ship would go after the baddies while the relief ship would stay and help the victims. Combining the abilities of the two ships into one would make such operations impossible.
posted
May be a bit simple, but why not just back to the old situation, a handfull of Danubes. As mentioned in the DS9TM, there are always ships nearby ("All other ships assigned to support roles attached to nearby starbases and secured Federation worlds and are not normally based at DS9"). Now that Bajor is a member of the Federation, though, a lot of ships would probably hang around at any given time. Except of course when a ship called Enterprise enters the sector, and immediately becomes The Only Ship In The Sector.
Another question: Would the Federation build a new Starbase in Bajoran orbit, to replace the old rusty (and quite painful to the Bajoran Occupation survivors) Cardassian mining station? And after Bajor is a member, wouldn't the designation "Deep Space" become obsolete? The fact that all DS stations have numbers below 10 could point to a system where Deep Space stations are renamed to Starbase such-and-such and new remote outposts become Deep Space stations.
posted
Seems to me that I would have a fleet on battle standy at all times composed of fast, powerful, and agile ships. You could also have and exploration project based on DS9, for example, start with a fleet of explorers at the base and have them all go different places then a fleet of science ships would follow them up. That's where the battle fleet comes in. Say that a science ship encounters a civilization missed by an explorer, and it's hostile. Being less armed than most, and not able to hold them, a couple of ships could come and kick thier butt. Easy.
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I'm not sure Starfleet would be interested in building a starbase in orbit around the planet Bajor. Presumably, they would want to build one next to the wormhole (which still technically "orbits Bajor", but only if we speak of the star and not the planet).
A base close to the planet would of course have been nice back when Bajor was struggling with internal political problems and famines and whatnot. Its phasers, sensors and transporters would then nicely have covered the planet, and it wouldn't have taken hours for our heroes to reach the hot spots of trouble. And such a base could also protect the planet itself during times of war.
But currently, there aren't any problems requiring space supervision on Bajor, as far as we know. And the threat of war is diminished, too. It would now more than ever before make sense to center all the Starfleet activity to near the wormhole mouth. Perhaps the old Cardassian contraption could be replaced - but it's half "Starfleetized" already, with the most modern weapons and stuff. The need is not that urgent.
I agree that Sisko's heirs probably don't have to do as much traffic control and troubleshooting stuff in the neighborhood as they had to in the early seasons. There should indeed be much more Starfleet traffic in the area now, and we know that these "starships-at-large" are used for this stuff every now and then (the E-D did her share of local troubleshooting and traffic control).
It still makes organisatory sense to give some of the traffic control burden to the local starbase, however - they know their turf well, they have the experience, and they can spare the time and the resources. A starship stationed elsewhere and just passing by would be limited in endurance and in local knowledge.
And if the station crew is gonna handle the local traffic, then it does make sense to give them at least some craft or ships that are a match to the opponents they are likely to face in the traffic control duty - smugglers, raiders, fugitives, or innocent freighters that just happen to suffer engine trouble and must be towed away from a dangerous course. A Danube just doesn't cut it, and never did.
posted
I love being a trailblazer, but I also must point out now, before much more time passes, that I and others posited moving DS9 back to Bajoran orbit, building a new starbase at the entrance to the wormhole, Bajoran membership in the Federation (only delayed because of the Dominion threat, after all...), and the splitting of Starfleet into Tactical and Exploratory Divisions long before this thread popped up on here. I've been writing a 2380-edition Technical Manual from those very standpoints for a couple years now.
And I also think the Defiant and gaggle of Runabouts will continue to serve DS9 just fine.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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Yes, and to shamelessly quote myself: "In 2369, Bajor applied for Federation membership ("Emissary" [DS9]), which was granted by the Federation Council in 2373 ("Rapture" [DS9]). The Bajoran Chamber of Ministers, however, voted to postpone admission until after the Dominion threat was over ("Rapture" [DS9])."
quote:Originally posted by Timo: For defending the station or the sector, any other ship would be preferable - the Defiant never successfully engaged in any defensive action during her career.
The first defensive engagement that came to mind was "Shattered Mirror," but that wasn't the "real" Defiant. However, since they're the same type of ship, I'd say that the point remains valid.
The battle in "Call to Arms" is not entirely a fair judgement, either. There were only two ships present for the Allies -- the Defiant and the Rotarran. Weyoun complained of losing "over fifty ships." Assuming a 33% attrition rate (which is an extremely high figure), the Dominion attacked DS9 with 150 ships. I'd hardly call a 75-to-1 battle a fair test of defensive capabilities.
You could consider the battle against the Klingons in 'The Way of the Warrior" as a defensive battle, when the Defiant defended that crippled Cardassian cruiser long enough to rescue its crew.
In any event, we know that the Defiant was generally a very successful starship in combat. I suggest that the offensive or defensive aspect of that combat doesn't entirely matter. Either way, the ship can still kick lots of ass. And in any major defensive action (for instance, a renewed Dominion offensive), I'm certain that there would be other starships operating in the area to provide support.
Which takes me back to my argument about the Defaint as a patrol ship. Which you actually agree with me on, Timo. Traffic control, border patrol, and general monitoring of the sector are suitable peacetime uses for this ship.
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