Topic: "Botany Bay" or "It's 1996 but where is Kahn?"
Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
I saw Space Seed yesterday. Since I had nothing better to do, I watched it and looked for "things". The Constitution-registry, for example. Didn't see it, but Kahn is reading a computer screen while being at sickbay, obviously something about starships. But I seemed to be a hand-drawn image of his own ship.
His own ship - when did he start? 1996 is the generally accepted date, but the german translation of the episode gives 2096. And not only once, but during the whole episode, multiple times.Kirk calls him a man of the 21st century, McCoy says he's from the last century, Spock gives the date of the Eugenic Wars as 2092-2096. I particularely like it because they mention that earth was ruled by some dictators at that time. It all makes sense - WW3, the post-apocalyptic scenario from Encounter at Farpoint, the World government sometime at the beginning of the 22nd century, Bashir's comment about them taking place 200 years ago, Voyager's timetravel back to '96 where everything seemed fine. Besides that, I don't remember the launch of a DY-100 class sleeper ship 6 years ago.
And the synchronisation took place one or two years after the first airing, sometime around '70, so you can't say lateron they noticed this wont happen and changed it. Are you absolutely sure Spock said 1996? If so, we have another 'Independence-paradox'.
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KHAN Do you mean he never told you the tale? To amuse your captain? No? Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space in the year 1996, myself and the ship's company in cryogenic freeze?
TERREL I've never even met Admiral Kirk.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
Kahn is making hot dogs and other deli meats i believe.. the question is, where is Khan?
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quote:Originally posted by Capped In Mic: the question is, where is Khan?
Given that he's been in deep space for the last 6 years, I'd say he's almost to Saturn by now...unless of course he hasn't fallen through the Voyager VI wormhole or been swept away by the "Charybdis aliens" or the Ares IV anomaly
Quite a busy solar system when you stop to think about it.
posted
Oh, I don't have time to explain this all again. Just go and read "The Eugenics Wars" Volumes 1 and 2 by Greg Cox. It'll explain everything.
V1 is out in paperback now.
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posted
The whole thing sticking point about this is that in "Space Seed," it was stated that Khan & his gang were from 1996, but it also stated that "two hundred years ago" Khan was a prince. This is because at the time of the episode, TPTB were under the impression that Star Trek took place in the late 22nd century, not the late 23rd as would be affirmed later.
Unfortunately, when the movie came along, they decided to go with the original 1996 reference, even though in the 1980's when TWOK was made, it was glaringly apparent that there wasn't going to be any Eugenics Wars in 10+ years from then. Personally I would have gone for the "two hundred years" reference for TWOK, which would have put the Wars in the 2060's instead of 1996, according to the accepted ST dating system.
These days, references to the Eugenics Wars and sleeper ships occuring in 1996 is really just kind of stupid now, especially for the producers of Enterprise, who in trying to get new audiences would probably ignore all of it anyway. When the Special Edition of TWOK comes out, I hope they overdub Khan's 1996 line, but they probably won't.
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quote:Oh, I don't have time to explain this all again. Just go and read "The Eugenics Wars" Volumes 1 and 2 by Greg Cox. It'll explain everything.
I haven't read it but I've heard that according to these books the Eugenic Wars happened in secret. I think that's bloody stupid. It's really not necessary to explain why we didn't notice that the war happened in 1996.
quote: even though in the 1980's when TWOK was made, it was glaringly apparent that there wasn't going to be any Eugenics Wars in 10+ years from then.
Well, even in the 1960s it was apparent that there wouldn't be Eugenic Wars started by Khan 40 years from then.
[ June 24, 2002, 12:58: Message edited by: Spike ]
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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ultimate Magnus: Marvellously backstopping Germany to an eventual World Cup Championship.
Wonderful. Not that I want to sound pessimistic, but South Korea will kick our butt out of the match.
Back to topic, I still don't see a reason why they should change it to 2096 in Space Seed. But I remember 1996 being mentioned in both the original and german version of TWOK. Maybe we can say Khan said the truth in Space Seed (2096), but his long exile and death of his wife made him go insane, and totally confused after that long time he thought he was from the year 1996 and knew Chekov from the Enterprise. The message Kirk was an Admiral now gave him the rest. What do you think? Possible answer for a long-lasting continuity-error?
posted
Spike said: "Well, even in the 1960s it was apparent that there wouldn't be Eugenic Wars started by Khan 40 years from then."
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Although I was just a kid during the sixties, I remember conversative foreasts for the far-off 21st century including nuclear war (probably between China and Russia, by about 1985), bases on the moon and nearby planets, flying cars, jetpacks, test-tube babies, cloning, and widespread use of metallic-based fabrics and large zippers. From 1967, 1996, just 30 years in the future, was considered a long ways away. If you had looked back to 1937 and seen how much the world had changed, a eugenics war in another 30 years didn't seem so unlikely. In 1982 Blade Runner suggested we'd have genetically engineered supermen (and flying cars) by 2018, which was 36 years in 1982's future but is now only 16 years in our future. Perhaps a bit optimistic, but cloning is probably possible soon and genetic engineering before birth already is.
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