Let's cut Mim some slack here. I believe what he's doing is just extrapolating data from all official & canon sources, whether they contradict each other or not. As Spike says, both the Encyclopedia and the DS9 tech manual do indeed state these things.
However, there comes a point where, even though the authors presumably tried to do the best they could, we don't necessarily have to agree with them. Okuda did a good job with the Encyclopedia, but everything in there isn't 100% correct. He even stated as much in the introduction. That's why I ended up making a separate, canon-only shiplist to complement my official list.
Anyway, as Mim said, it's his list. I probably won't necessarily agree with everything in it (I remember when he said he thought the Challenger & the Springfield from the Star Trek VI list were the actual class ships of the Challenger & Springfield class ), but he has a right to believe that if he wants to.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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I assure you that I am trying to be as sensical as possible with this list, but I am counting the so-called "canon publications" as I do indeed believe is fitting. If you'll read my annotations, you'll see that I have mentioned when something is questionable or inconsistent.
If you really want to get nitty-gritty about it, there's no concrete reason why the Carolina couldn't be a Daedalus. Perhaps a few of the ships remained in service as convoy freighters or some-such even after the class was officially "retired." Or, there could be some far-fetched explanation similar to what happened to the Bozeman or something. (This is all pulled straight out of my rectum, of course, but I must at least defend myself, you know... )
I do not consider it to be unreasonable for the Centaur to be called an "Excelsior variant," nor do I think it unreasonable for the Yeager to be called an "Intrepid variant." (The Curry/Raging Queen and Elkins being "Excelsior/Consitution" and "Intrepid/Constitution" variants are indeed more of a stretch even for me, but I'm trying to be as "official" as possible. I wouldn't have put it in there if they weren't called that in the DS9TM. I will be also be using the "official" Connie registries as well, though I will include plenty of annotations about FJ's alternate registry scheme.) I know this discussion has been had before, and I know that there will be some things that people rigidly object to in my list...but so be it.
Dukkie, I long ago conceeded that the TUC ships could not in any way be the class ships of the TNG era vessels, and you'll see that reflected in the Challenger entries.
I'm not necessarily going to be changing a lot of stuff, but I like this proofreading you guys are doing though, please keep it up.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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Two tiny nits, in the entry for the Elkins, the Raging Queen is mentioned with a USS prefix, but USS was missing from the name on the model. In the Enterprise NX-01 entry, it has the SS prefix, which it shouldn't. It's very interesting reading, looks like you put a ton of work into it.
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Okidoki. Another thing, although not a nitpick... In the entry for the USS Fredrickson, you say "whether this means the ship existed as both physical and computer generated forms is unclear, but seems likely." Well, in the documentary in the TNG season two DVD about the props warehouse, the physical model is shown with the Fredrickson labels on it, I think it was the one built for Flashback. Here's part of a screencap.
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Tiny nitpick - the Eagle on Apollo 11 and all it's sister ships was a LEM - Lunar Excursion Module was it not? Not a "Lunar Landing Module" just a little thing.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I am not ignorant of the fact that there have been long legacies of these names, but I think Gene Roddenberry wanted to convey the Connies as the aircraft carriers of the 23rd century, thus he named them after aircraft carriers of the day. That was the premise I was going for with those particular ships, anyways.
i completely 100% disagree with that approach, but you can have whatever opinion you want on the matter. besides, if you name a ship after a ship that was named after yet another older ship then you are still ultimately naming the new ship after the original ship.
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Phlox: Thanks for the studio model pic. The reason why there must have been both a physical and a digital Fredrickson is, IIRC, beacuse Mojo told us the CGI ship from "Relativity" was the Fredrickson. Or are you trying to tell me something that I'm not getting?
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: UPDATE: Phlox: Thanks for the studio model pic. The reason why there must have been both a physical and a digital Fredrickson is, IIRC, beacuse Mojo told us the CGI ship from "Relativity" was the Fredrickson. Or are you trying to tell me something that I'm not getting?
-[b]MMoM
I was confirming that there definitely was a physical model as well as the CGI one used in the Voyager shots.
[ November 11, 2002, 19:52: Message edited by: Dr. Phlox ]
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Tiny nitpick - the Eagle on Apollo 11 and all it's sister ships was a LEM - Lunar Excursion Module was it not? Not a "Lunar Landing Module" just a little thing.
After reading a few pages, I can say that you've done a great job here, MMOM. I do suggest that for the origin of ship names that you go back further than US Navy carriers. For example, although Bonhomme Richard was a carrier, the more famous ship was John Paul Jones's ship (from Ben Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac) that defeated the RN frigate Serapis in 1779.
[ November 11, 2002, 22:08: Message edited by: Masao ]
-------------------- When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Registered: Oct 1999
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It WAS originally the LEM, but about halfway through the design they dropped the Excursion part, just calling it LM. However, most people continued to call it the "LEM" (pron. "lehm") as a more convenient acronym.
I have a friend who has kindly offered to let me put my list on his server, and I've decided to take him up on it because, as has been pointed out, it should be earsier and more manageable on "real" host rather than Angelfire.
Therefore, I will be setting up at this new site over the next week or so. The pages that are already up at Angelfire will remain so for the time being, and I'll post the new address when it's configured, but it'll mean no updates for a few days. But you're all patient people...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
), but he has a right to believe that if he wants to.![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
)![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It's very interesting reading, looks like you put a ton of work into it.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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