posted
There wouldn't *be* an organization called "Starfleet" without any ships. Besides, there's the Neptune-class from a decade earlier.
And not to nitpick, but didn't the "Broken Bow" script say that Starfleet was 15 years old at the time? (Meaning it was begun in 2136?)
In any case, Drexler was probably intending to build on the letter combination class names known to have been in use in early times. (DY, etc.) This is backed by the use of other letter classes on the show. (J-class and Y-class.)
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Starfleet is Starfleet. It's not going to cease to be and when the Federation is founded another of the same name in it's place. Highly unlikely.
The Shenandoah probably launched AFTER Enterprise did. Was it ever revealed that it was out and about years before??
What evidence from the episodes leads to the conclusion that Enterprise isn't the first Starfleet vessel?
With all the significance of ships named Enterprise in series to come, doesn't it seem like a retro poetic justice that the first Starfleet ship happened to be named Enterprise?
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: You're confusing your Starfleet's. (United Federation Starfleet & United Earth Star Fleet) Indeed there was another UESF ship mentioned, the Shenandoah plus I think one of Malcolm's friends was onboard another ship and had a similarly styled ship patch to enterprise's
Well, the Shenandoah was implied to be a new ship in "Silent Enemy."
There are NOT two separate Starfleets. They are the same organization. The fleet we see in ENT will simply expand to include the whole UFP. This is very clearly the intention of TPTB, and furthermore it was confirmed in the January 2003 Star Trek: The Magazine.
From the article entitled "Introduction to Federation Vessels," page 32, paragraph 1: "Starfleet began life as a purely human organization, operating a variety of warp vessels including Enterprise NX-01. However, it came into its own with the formation of the Federation in 2161, and since then has been responsible for thousands of ships."
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I don't completely follow the logic. It all has to start with one ship at some point. So they call it Starfleet with the intention of eventually having a fleet. They can't just pop into existence: instant fleet!
I don't remember the context of the Neptune Class (which in the show was not definitively a Starfleet ship), but it sounds like a more conventional name for ship classes we'll come to know. By the way, weren't letter-only classes, even in TOS freighters and transports, not Starfleet vessels? I think the true letter combos are probably reserved for that.
I don't care what the script says for Starfleet's age. Archer and Trip had a discussion in season 1 and it turned out to be 12 years. That's what I'll base it on.
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: And not to nitpick, but didn't the "Broken Bow" script say that Starfleet was 15 years old at the time?
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: I don't care what the script says for Starfleet's age. Archer and Trip had a discussion in season 1 and it turned out to be 12 years. That's what I'll base it on.
Well, that's what I'm asking. Where did the 12 year figure come from? I don't remember the said conversation. What episode?
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
After doing a little searching through old ENT Forum threads, I think I've found the source of my 15-year figure.
Apparently, in interviews from TV Guide and elsewhere, Rick Berman stated that Captain Archer had been a Starfleet officer for 15 years. So Starfleet is at least 15 years old, but not necessarily exactly that old. That's a long enough time for me to say that there MUST have been other SF vessels along the way.
And even if it *is* only 12 years, that's still long enough.
-MMoM
[ December 15, 2002, 19:13: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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If you hate UESPA as much as I do, then I have worse news for you. Mr. Sternbach created labeling for Friendship One which had UESPA markings. This is modern trek. Not some prototypical series attempting to build the foundation and structure of its fictional universe. So there, Enterprise doesn't even agree with the facts as presented in Voyager.
Dear god, no! Not labelling!. I am undone. We shall now rejoice of the world where the Enterprise-A had transwarp and Gene Rodenberry was commander in chief of Starfleet for seven billion years.
quote:As with TNG, I was open to the series Enterprise. However, the difference is that I have expectations of what the pre-TOS world should look like. I expected a primitive ship using nuclear weapons and being close to Earth. Not some 24th-22nd century hybrid which used weapons of the 23rd century. This doesn't jive with I saw and heard on the first.
Again, that's great for you. Really. It is. Smashing. I personally wanted a series where I ruled all the world and received hand jobs from Charisma Carpenter on a daily basis. But that didn't happen. Sometimes we have to let go of what we think things should be like.
quote:Psyliam,
I like you as much you like me which is not a whole hell of a lot.
Huh?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I was reading on the TrekBBS an article written in the Los Angeles Times. There is growing concern within Viacom, the owner of Paramount, and outside the company on the fate of UPN and Enterprise. Enterprise's numbers are dropping. An approximate 2/3 of the audience have quit watching the show.
Psyliam,
I am responding to your web persona. It's in your face agression and I don't like it.
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
If Starfleet is so young at the time of Enterprise, it makes you wonder where the senior officers came from initially. Were there national Space navies? I suppose commercial spacers is another option but then you'd have to train them in military and exploration duties.
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
In the founding of real-world navies, the answer has usually been "merchant mariners and foreign advisors/mercenaries". In this case, though, foreign aid seems out of the question. Not only would Earth refuse, out of specieist pride and a good sense of self-preservation; the Vulcans would probably try to stop this as well.
I trust people from various Earth military services like national or planetary air forces and navies would form the early Earth Starfleet, or its predecessor services. There have probably been space brances to militaries for the better part of two centuries in the ENT era, even if these haven't had much experience in fighting interstellar adversaries.
To weave a bit of today's events with Trek history, I would speculate that as the satellite-based missile defense systems grew in size and prominence, there was a need to find a way to combat them. Ground-based lasers work to some extent, but having an armed spaceship in orbit to take out enemy satellites -- or even to shoot down defensive missile interceptors -- would bring about the beginnings of national space militaries for patrolling Earth orbit.
IMO, space travel wasn't unheard of by the time of "First Contact" -- when the Borg started firing on Cochrane's missile silo, they figured it was ECON, suggesting that attacks launched from orbit had happened in the past, probably during World War III.
Later, as Humans started to spread out into space, they'd begin to consider the need for self-defense. The speciesist attitude we've seen in ENT would suggest that Humans would want to have a military to protect their own planet(s) -- no matter if their slow, popgun-equipped barges wouldn't stand up to any Klingon or other alien ships.
And so after First Contact, nations built their own navies for their defense and the furtherance of their own national interests in interstellar space, but at the same time the trend towards global unification led to the creation of the United Nations Starfleet. (Or whatever the name of the global government is in ENT.) And by the time the Enterprise had launched, pretty much all of the official Earth space navy had been brought under the banner of Starfleet.
There's no doubt in my mind that there were at least a handful of Earth Starfleet ships in service before Enterprise. First off, it would make no sense for everyone to sit on their hands and wait for the magical benefits of the Warp Five Engine -- especially because warp drive itself was already a giant leap for Mankind. And so even though Starfleet would have been seriously restricted in range, they'd still send out ships.
I'd compare the pre-ENT Starfleet to basically a coast guard-type outfit; they have ships enough to manage their domestic affairs within the Sol system and send out a few expeditions to the nearest stars, but nothing near enough to make them an interstellar power. (Which is basically what "Enterprise" is showing -- Humans becoming an interstellar power.)
Consider that the NX-01 can reach Warp 4.5 quite easily; that's 91 times the speed of light. If the fastest earlier Earth ships could make at best Warp 3, then the NX-01 can still go THREE TIMES AS FAST as the next-fastest Earth ship. They're completely on their own, really. (Yes, that's a cliched assertion, but still true.) So that's why we don't even get a hint of any other nearby Earth ships.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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