posted
I don't see a problem with warp carriers being used to move around massive fleet formations--- this might also explain why the Warbirds are so huge in the 24th century and design philosophy carried over from the original "capital ship designs. "
But anyway, the reason I don't have a problem with warp carriers is that they help explain a large Romulan fleet that has limited warp drive technology. But they do not exclude the ability for the Romulans to have a few smaller sized ships with warp drives like the large carriers.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
I think it's fairly clear that the Romulans were indeed "disadvantaged" in the War. Why? Because Earth's forces and abilities in and of themselves were pretty pathetic, and the Rommies still lost to us. And it seems logical (and, as a side benefit, in keeping with fandom tradition) that this disadvantage was inferior warp capability.
Now, obviously---and as has been discussed may times before---the Romulans couldn't have been totally devoid of warp drive and still have even really fought a war with Earth at all. But they could have had A) less ships with warp drive and more with just high energy impulse, B) lower high-warp limits than Earth ships, or C) just plain less ships due to scarcity of resources, etc.
This all fits with the ideas presented in the article.
-MMoM
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Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
So those big nacelles on the ENT BoP aren't warp engines then eh? They're clearly not impulse engines as those are shown to be near the central tail of the ship.
posted
They ARE warp nacelles. But either the internal systems have been taken out, or their speed is severely limited by the high-energy cloaking devices and weapons.
So basically, this article can explain away three versions of the Romulan BoP. Non-warp BoPs, with all internal warp systems ripped out. Slow BoPs, limited by their cloaks/weapons and fast BoPs, probably without cloaks and powerful weapons.
posted
It would be a simple matter to gut the nacelles and install cloaking support equipment or extra fuel tanks in thier place.
Prehaps they had the material to build the nacelles, but there was a shortage of coil material. Therefore all ships had nacelles installed waiting for coils.
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Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I think the limiting factor here is range. The RBoPs can of course have warp drive but lets say that they can only achieve warp 1 or 2 and that they can only travel X amount of light years before they need refuelling. So you have big carriers (presumably the Warbirds) that can go warp 3 or 4 that transport the smaller RBoPs from their bases in the core worlds to the frontier worlds. When a border patrol runs short on supplies another carrier picks them up and replaces them with a fully loaded patrol. In theory there could be dozens of Carriers circling the Empire, going from major installations and settlements to the border systems and back again, sort of like the Heighliners in Dune.
This could be the Romulan's main weakness in time of war since all you have to do is destroy a carrier and you've effectively stranded all the low warp ships within the local sector grid. More than that you've interrupted the supply lines and put potentially more strain on all the other carriers. If you keep destroying or crippling the carriers than you force the Romulans to put more of their resouces into protecing their carriers and less into actually fighting the war, thereby increasing your chances of gaining ground (space).
Though the idea that the Romulans didn't have warp drive at the time seems indefensible for other reasons, "Minefield" only established that the Romulans had cloaking devices. Their weapons did not seem to be particularly more destructive than what Enterprise carries, though of course they were only firing warning shots. And the ships never go to warp, or even travel very fast at all, since they're following Enterprise, which is slowing winding through the mines. So there's nothing in the episode itself to insist that those ships were warp capable. For all we know they could have been built there.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I haven't read this thread and article. I have now!
Nice article.
One thing... Picard's line to Dougherty... reguarding Romulans getting warp drive 100 years ago.
This COULD relate to the Romulan/Klingon alliance which might have shored up any persistant problems the Romulans were having with Warp.
Also reguards the size comparison chart and the 'large' D'Deridexes... I still stick to the theory that the 'A-type' are the big-arsed versions Probert originally invisaged. Seen at least in "The Neutral Zone" - maybe only one or two of them are around.
The 'B-type' as referenced by Data could be the ones we see a lot of throughout TNG. Like in Tin Man etc. When there are usually 2+ warbirds in attendance.
Also looking at that size comparison chart - why does probert have to stick do-hickeys all over his designs - it is SO not Star Trek Design�. Clean lines is what Trek is about. Look at the wonderful D'Deridex there. Think about all the other non-Eaves designs.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Anybody got a link to that size chart? If one was posted, I missed it!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Thanks. That does look off to me.....the Valdore is too big and the Warbird is waaaaay too large. Even if you go with the 1300 meter length for the Warbird, the drawing is scaled too large.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Thanks. That does look off to me.....the Valdore is too big and the Warbird is waaaaay too large. Even if you go with the 1300 meter length for the Warbird, the drawing is scaled too large.
Well, the D'deridex has been photoshopped in by someone at whatever scale they wanted, but the Valdore is the right size. (1980ft or about 604m.)
posted
Actually that D'deridex that is photoshopped in is scaled at about ~1300m, which is about ~40m short of the 4400'(1341m) claim. I made the slight 2% adjustment in size to fulfill the 4400' Warbird. The rest of the ships remain the same and are scale, so the relationship is correct between the Nemesis ships and the D'deridex Warbird which is really that massive, for reference thats nearly 1.3km long!!
I think the deal with the Valdore is that is looked so much smaller in the movie because we really only saw it on the same plane as the Scemitar and obviously the latter dwarfed the Valdore. IIRC, the Enterprise and the Valdore were never shot together in such a manner that you could see how large the Warbird was in relation to the Enterpise.
[ April 01, 2003, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Futurama Guy ]
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Registered: Jan 2003
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