quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: Seriously, though, Starfleet seems to have been almost exclusively exploratory before "Broken Bow." It's not impossible that they might have as few as twenty or thirty starships total, puttering around at warp 2.
I would have to say that that seems likely. Too bad, though, as I always rather liked the idea that there were primitive space navies by the time of World War III. Doesn't seem realistic, though, given what we've seen...
Registered: Jun 2001
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Cartman
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posted
You can't get a lot of exploring done at warp two, so most (if not all) ships SF has are probably relegated to scouting Earth's galactic backyard... eveeer sooo slooowly.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Realistically, it would take decades to really survey even one system, even with TNG-level sensor equipment. We've lived on Earth for millennia and still discover new things all the time. The first new family of insect in a century was discovered just last year. Even Alpha Centauri might still be a great place to do that kind of science at the time of Enterprise. With warp 2 ships that made it out to a handful of systems, there is a lot to do, especially if Enterprise as a real ship of exploration is the first of it's kind. Oberth-equivalents probably abound.
posted
When you put it that way, it really does make what Enterprise is out and about doing seem pointless. I suppose you could classify it as a "scout", as it doesn't really seem to spend too much time at one place:
It only briefly encounters new species, versus sticking around or employing crew members for cultural exchanges;
It only stops to explore big, obvious, or out-of-the-norm phenomenons like uber-giant stars, uber-giant asteroids, nebulae, and ships in distress;
There is no planned direction to its mission, its just out in space, aimlessly zooming around wasting tax-payers money and making new enemies for Earth...
So based on this, what good could warp 2 SF vessels really be? freighters?
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Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:... Anyway, at that speed it is quickly able to zip out to the vicinity of Enterprise.
Huh? I thought that Enterprise is supposed to be 100 lightyears away from Earth. The Borg would need ca. 170 days (?) to catch up with Enterprise.
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Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Hasn't it been suggested that the ship is on its way back toward Earth. I mean, the Horizon certainly isn't out 100 l/y hauling freight...its an old ass freighter probably within a few dozen l/y's of Earth at best...indicating that Enterprise is on its way back...yet it has to be over 25 l/y's because last weeks 'alien of the week' wasn't within that range of Earth...
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quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: -The Borg debris field is kinda obvious, no? There's wreckage and stuff strewn over a fairly large area... I'm somewhat surprised that something like that wasn't visible from space a whole lot earlier than this.
-Borg sphere = 600 meters in diameter, according to the curvature of the wreckage. Have at it, size boys!
Though it's nice to have an indication of the size of the sphere seen in FC, I just can't get past this:
From what I'm hearing, the episode basically says the whole sphere went down. From what I can see above, there's just that little bit at the bottom that could possibly be big enough to make a debris field, even assuming it (and the drones aboard it) managed to survive re-entry.
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posted
No no... there was only a little bit of the debris left. The science team EXTRAPOLATED the sphere's size by measuring the curvature, and then SPECULATED that there was a lot more debris than they saw initiall.
It's still workable, it seems.
The big question I have is, why Borg are able to work in the vacuum of space, which is an approximate temperature of 2.73� Kelvin, while the temperature in Earth's Arctic Circle is more like 273�K... Or at least around 250�K...
Seeing the assimilated Earth transport in action made me think of a very interesting theory... the ship from "Descent" which has given us so much trouble? What if that was an unknown NON-BORG SHIP that was assimilated and used? The assymetrical additions had a similar style as that seen on the Earth transport, in some ways...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
It wasn't nearly as bad an episode as I thought it'd be, but still, if they hadn't reduced the time it took for the Borg nanoprobes to take affect, there would not have been a story to begin with. A few hairy moments, especially when we see Captain Archer's naivity assert itself in regards to the assimilated people. It seems like he changed his mind too quickly, he seemed the idealistic type that wouldn't be stopped by just different biometric readings.
BTW, did the NX-01 always have two rear torpedoe launchers? I was rather amazed by the amount of punishment she delt. Not to mention that the phase pistols seemed more capable of delaying being adapted to than 24th Century phasers, simply by dialing up the power. Other little things like bothered me was the fact Admiral Forrester accompanied the search party, which made no sense. That the Borg nanoprobes could not assimilate individuals as rapidly as they did in the future, even though they had no problem with assimilating equipment at a high rate.
Malcolm's line about them "might as well be shooting holographic bullets" was kinda funny.
Highly skeptical that a mere subspace signal could reach all the way back to the Delta Quadrant, especially without the aid of rely stations. If that was possible, why did the Borg in FC even bother with rigging the Ent-E's nav deflector?
Finally, this, ontop of Cochrane's speech at Princeton, ontop of the accounts the survivors of Guiane's race, etc, you'd think the Federation wouldn't have been so surprised by the Borg when they were 'formally' introduced in the 24th Century.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Well, having just viewed the show, which I can say overall "works" for the series, I thought I would contribute some additional notes or organized specs on various technology (most of this may be a rehash of Mark's), but I organized/typed this as the episode progressed:
22nd Century Arctic ground vehicles!! As in 'tracked-plow trucks' at the base camp...
"Arctic One" was called by the "A-6 Excavation Team". "Arctic One" could refer to the name of the "Arctic Transport" or the camp.
The "Arctic Transport" (aka the Borgs ship, aka Marks 'hovercraft') originally had a normal "max of wf 1.4" (as mentioned). These ships are also normally unarmed, however the Borg modified this one to incorporate a "proton burst" but VFX showed both this and then later, the now classic Borg green 'torpedoes' (seen in the above pics).
Also, as mentioned, the Borgified ship left Earth at 'wf 3.9', by the time Enterprise encountered it, it was engaging a "Tarkalean freighter" where it was engaged by the Enterprise, yet managed to escape. Then once relocated, their top speed was 'doubled to wf 4.8'; Enterprise pursued her at 'wf 4.9' despite being '2 light year's away'. Upon catching the ship it was noted that the 'mass had increased 3%' (having enhanced all except the aft plating) from their first meeting. The ship, upon being caught by Enterprise, sped up to 'wf 4.96 --> wf 4.98', but Enterprise managed to knock it out of warp....upon a Voyager-esque battle sequence...the ship eventually went *BOOM*.
The Borgified ship population breakdown: 29 Borg = ~2 were the original drones, ~9 were Human, ~18 were Tarkaleans.
The "Tarkalean freighter" had a crew of ~20 (~18 drones + 2 biosigns/drones left behind). Their homeworld is "Tarkalea".
Note Reeds comment about the Borg armor and the ineffectiveness of their phase pistols and something along the lines of "we might as well have been shooting holographic bullets", an 'in-joke', no doubt.
The phase pistols were upped to 10 Megajoules (=10 million joules) to beat the Borg and lasted through a shitload of drones....according to the Klingon article in ST:The Magazine, the Klingon standard pistol is about 2.7 times more powerful, and certainly they, or their Federation counterpart, wouldn't have lasted half as long against the Borg in the 24th Century...
...and Whoa Boy!, two *new* episodes next week!!!
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
That was the frelling worst episode of ANYTHING I've ever SEEN!!!!!!!
First I have gone on strike: I quite watching after last season. However I was intrigued how B+B could mess up the borg......
since when does the NX-01 have "photon" looking(and sounding) torpedoes and linear phaser arrays?
since when do the borg not assimilate defenceless humans lying on the ground......
the guns only have two settings and maclom says use "high-est" setting
Why didn't the E-E sensors pick up MASSIVE SPHERE CHUNKS, I mean what the heck that hull piece was at least 100ft tall!!
At least for me I'm settleing on the FACT that the entire concept of a "NX-01 UNIVERSE" is a alternate reality. NOT the NORMAL QUANTUM REALITY we tend to think of when regarding TREK.
"I am wondering why the borg would go to their homeworld if it is so far away and they already informed themselves and there is a planet of defenseless humans sitting right there in their grasp and the reinforcements would have no hope of getting there in time......why abandon the mission in the middle of a perfect opportunity just to go on a futile sight seeing trip?" Quoted from KARNAGE with permission.
posted
I also just remembered that the NX-01 locked weapons on the Borg transport during warp... Had it not dropped out of warp, what would she have done, fired phased cannons and spatial torpedoes forward during warp?
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Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by David Templar: Finally, this, ontop of Cochrane's speech at Princeton, ontop of the accounts the survivors of Guiane's race, etc, you'd think the Federation wouldn't have been so surprised by the Borg when they were 'formally' introduced in the 24th Century.
Well it does make one wonder how the Hansens have such a wonderful cube model prior to even encountering a cube....maybe SF just didnt give a crap because of the greater concerns at home...the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc...to worry about some species located 50 years travel away...with, as far as SF knew, no reason to single Earth out or anything that ever implicated that Earth was ever to be significant enough of a target in the near future anyway...
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I'm not questioning you, but just the sanity of the writers...but how would the Borg have wisely known that warp 3.9 would have gotten them into the clear? Seems rather convienient...unless they had their Earth history books and chronometers set to the right date to know that they would be fast enough to actually get out of the system unchallenged... [/QB]
warp 3.9 might have been the top speed the low-tech warp ship could withstand with the mods already built into it.
The Borg might not ahve been headed directly back to their space: they could have been seeking out a charted world full of easy prey and high tech to bolster their strength and return to complete the mission from First contact (since that pesky 1701-E had finally left!).
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Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I just saw the episode... it was more than tolerable. It brought back the old, threating feeling the Borg first gave off in TNG. I love the way the Artic ship become Borgified... and also that comment Reed makes about holographic bullets.
A theory on the slow assimilation process... The Borg have algorithms that initiate when they are cut off from The Collective, basically for survival and retrieval. What if it takes The Collective, or even a "mini collective" like in FC to fully initiate the nanoprobes. The Voyager episode "Unity" had the Cooperative link together to heal Chakotay's injuries. What if you need some kind of central order to make assimilation go faster?
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